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Update on "5 cyclists killed in Kalamazoo"

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Update on "5 cyclists killed in Kalamazoo"

Old 03-23-17, 10:04 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by canklecat
It'll be interesting to see how his defense presents an insanity plea.
Depends on the result of the testing ordered by the judge. If the results are not favorable by the defense, they simply won't use it.

even if they can't try him for 2nd degree murder, he's going away probably until he is a very old man.
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Old 03-24-17, 08:46 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
Depends on the result of the testing ordered by the judge. If the results are not favorable by the defense, they simply won't use it.

even if they can't try him for 2nd degree murder, he's going away probably until he is a very old man.
The psych ward of a state prison is one of the most dangerous parts to be in.
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Old 03-30-17, 06:52 PM
  #128  
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KALAMAZOO, Mich. (AP) — A motorist accused of killing five bicyclists and injuring four others in southwestern Michigan will stand trial on second-degree murder charges.

A Kalamazoo County Circuit judge has denied Charles Pickett Jr.’s motion to reverse an earlier ruling that allowed the murder charges.

The judge also denied Pickett’s efforts to suppress statements he made to police about the crash.



Judge denies motion on murder charges in Kalamazoo bicyclists? deaths | Fox17
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Old 03-30-17, 07:48 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
KALAMAZOO, Mich. (AP) — A motorist accused of killing five bicyclists and injuring four others in southwestern Michigan will stand trial on second-degree murder charges.

A Kalamazoo County Circuit judge has denied Charles Pickett Jr.’s motion to reverse an earlier ruling that allowed the murder charges.

The judge also denied Pickett’s efforts to suppress statements he made to police about the crash.



Judge denies motion on murder charges in Kalamazoo bicyclists? deaths | Fox17
Just heard this on the news. It's about time folks are held accountable for an action (poor decision) that leads to a death or deaths of others.
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Old 03-30-17, 10:57 PM
  #130  
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Good. Pickett had way more problems than just substance abuse, driving under the influence and depression or self-esteem issues. I read the guy's Facebook page and he was a ticking time bomb looking for a place to go off. Non-stop anti-social, aggressive and hostile stuff dating back for years. It was pretty much the same sort of anti-social rants that make most detached observers say "Yeah, figures he'd do something like that," while enablers among his family and friends will say "Gee, he always seemed so nice, quiet, considerate, blah-blah-blah." If he'd fit the typical "terrorist" profile he'd have been on the radar for authorities long ago. But because he didn't fit the profile he was just considered another loudmouth bad boy showing off.

We have a couple of virtually identical types in our metropolitan area, infecting every local news comment section with racist wingnut rants, hostility toward cyclists and pedestrians ("Get out of my way or get run over"), even calling for homeless people camping under bridges and in parks to be "exterminated" (exact quotes in both cases). Their Facebook pages are filled with confederate flags, racist and misogynist memes, selective stories about racial violence, reports of victims of accidents and violent crimes who "deserved it" or "had it coming", etc.

These guys are the justification for the pre-crime concept predicted by Philip K. Dick that's gradually becoming a reality.
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Old 04-10-17, 06:49 PM
  #131  
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Judge to decide if prior DUI arrest can be used in fatal bike crash trial | MLive.com

KALAMAZOO, MI -- A Kalamazoo County judge will decide whether a past driving under the influence arrest can be presented as evidence at Charles Pickett Jr.'s trial.

Pickett is charged with driving a pickup truck into a group of bicyclists north of Kalamazoo, killing five and injuring four.

A Rhea County, Tenn., sheriff's deputy testified via phone Monday, April 10, before Kalamazoo County Circuit Court Judge Paul J. Bridenstine that he pulled Pickett's car over in the early morning hours of Feb. 12, 2011 after Pickett crossed the fog line several times. Deputy Jesse Wilkey testified that Pickett's wife at the time was following Pickett in another vehicle and pulled in behind Wilkey as he pulled Pickett over.
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Old 04-10-17, 06:59 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
KALAMAZOO, MI -- A Kalamazoo County judge will decide whether a past driving under the influence arrest can be presented as evidence at Charles Pickett Jr.'s trial.
....

I suspect that the prosecutor has enough without this bit. If so, I'd withdraw the request because if the judge allows it, it could become the basis for reversal on appeal. No conviction, and no records makes it marginal as evidence, and I'd hate to see this screw up the case.
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Old 04-11-17, 05:31 AM
  #133  
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Given the way that our culture treats drinking and vehicular injuries of cyclists, if I were the prosecutor, I'd almost not want it included because I'd be afraid that it would create doubt around the idea of intent in the minds of jurors and push it toward an "accident" because "oh he just drinks and drives sometimes and then can't control his vehicle. he didn't mean to hop in his car with the sole purpose of hurting someonone no matter what his facebook says. that's him just blowing off some steam."
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Old 04-11-17, 11:10 AM
  #134  
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It's stupid that police will weigh actions at a stop, up to and including a prior arrest record, in determining how they will interrogate a person and even if they will arrest them, but it's some kind of question about whether it will be included in an actual trial.
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Old 04-13-17, 04:20 AM
  #135  
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Trial rescheduled for Charles Pickett Jr. in fatal bicycle crash | MLive.com

Pickett's defense attorney Alan Koenig in March filed a notice to use the insanity defense in Pickett's case. He has been ordered to undergo an evaluation for criminal responsibility at the state's Center for Forensic Psychiatry in Ypsilanti, which has caused a delay in the case
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Old 05-08-17, 09:58 AM
  #136  
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Article from Bicycling Magazine online.KALAMAZOO | Bicycling
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Old 05-08-17, 02:42 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
Article from Bicycling Magazine online.KALAMAZOO | Bicycling
That would make a great jury handout for sentencing.
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Old 06-07-17, 05:08 AM
  #138  
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A year after the Kalamazoo bike crash a trial is still months away | MLive.com

KALAMAZOO, MI -- A year after the deadly crash near Kalamazoo in which a man is accused of driving drugged and plowing into a group of nine bicyclists, killing five and injuring four, a trial is still at least 15 weeks away.

In fact, there's no guarantee the trial for Charles Pickett Jr., scheduled to begin Sept. 18, will happen this fall, either.

The prosecution and defense are waiting to learn whether the Michigan Court of Appeals will hear Pickett's appeal on second-degree murder charges he's facing.
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Old 06-07-17, 05:58 AM
  #139  
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I'll probably get some flack for saying this but, this is a perfect example of what's wrong with our judicial system. Impaired driver who admits he killed 5 innocents, and it takes 2 years to determine how to charge him.

He knew, or should have known, his actions (pills + driving) were likely to cause death or serious injury to himself or others. That's murder!

Same as if someone started shooting a gun in all directions in the middle of a baseball stadium. Impairment because of a breakup or argument with girlfriend is all bull ****.

Last edited by cb400bill; 06-08-17 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Bypassing forum censor
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Old 06-08-17, 05:37 AM
  #140  
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Unfortunate thing really
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Old 06-08-17, 10:34 AM
  #141  
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Assuming the guy is getting a local trial, it it may be a good thing to give it some time for the heat of the incident to die down, and hopefully have cooler heads in the jury room.

But, somehow our right to a "speedy trial" has been lost. As I understand it, Pickett has been held in jail without trial since the incident. Bail? That is a long time to be held without trial.
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Old 06-08-17, 01:45 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Assuming the guy is getting a local trial, it it may be a good thing to give it some time for the heat of the incident to die down, and hopefully have cooler heads in the jury room.

But, somehow our right to a "speedy trial" has been lost. As I understand it, Pickett has been held in jail without trial since the incident. Bail? That is a long time to be held without trial.
Rehab perhaps? Unfortunately, I know a couple of people who went to jail and their time was based on how long the detox lasted for the most part. Don't know all the details but they went away for a seemingly really long time for their minor crimes. Not manslaughter by any means. Both of my acquaintances were drug and alcohol abusers.

Dude might be a flight/suicide risk as well.
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Old 06-08-17, 01:52 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
But, somehow our right to a "speedy trial" has been lost. As I understand it, Pickett has been held in jail without trial since the incident. Bail? That is a long time to be held without trial.
Don't know the details in this case, but I suspect that most of the delay is a result of motions by his attorney for psychiatric and other medical examinations and at least partly to allow the emotions of the potential jury pool to cool. In a case where a fairly long sentence is highly likely there isn't that much motivation to avoid an extended pre-trial incarceration which can eventually be applied to the sentence.
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Old 06-08-17, 01:59 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK

But, somehow our right to a "speedy trial" has been lost. As I understand it, Pickett has been held in jail without trial since the incident. Bail? That is a long time to be held without trial.
Its his attorney that keeps getting it delayed.
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Old 06-08-17, 02:18 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123
Its his attorney that keeps getting it delayed.
Who is paying for the attorney?

The more delays, the more cash the attorney makes?
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Old 06-08-17, 09:19 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123
Its his attorney that keeps getting it delayed.
And as long as he's not out on bond, who cares? Jailed before the trial or after is still safely contained away from society? It's not like they can retroactively release him if some technicality gets him a sentence shorter than he's already served.
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Old 06-09-17, 03:19 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
But, somehow our right to a "speedy trial" has been lost.
You seem to be confused regarding the "right to a speedy trial" (6th amendment). This is to prevent the gov't from holding people in prison without trying them (like, the prisoners in Guantanamo bay, for example). The "right to speedy trial" is not some right on the part of society to have defendants tried in a speedy manner. If the guy's attorney is not pressing for a trial (in fact, he's doing the opposite), then there is no other entity that will try to get the trial scheduled. The DA may try to get to trial, and the judge will, but that is for administrative (and political) reasons, not because there is a 6th amendment issue.

As someone said, if the guy is content to rot in jail, then who cares? He's incarcerated, which would be the goal of prosecuting him anyway.

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Old 06-10-17, 06:33 AM
  #148  
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If this killers atty come up with the insanity defense, the question then becomes why was he on the road in the first place. Why didnt the authorities and or his family take away his drivers license.
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Old 06-10-17, 04:04 PM
  #149  
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At some point the wait becomes a miscarriage of justice, but if there is no chance of bail the defendant will remain incarcerated until trial or such time that the judge rules they be handled in a different manner. Calls for reports on evidence, preparation by the prosecution and defense to present a FAIR trial (speed is not the issue here, it's proper execution of the trial). Likewise you can't delay forever, and not being able to locate witnesses or people to testify or produce evidence on either side may lead to exclusion of those things. Then again some evidence relies on time-consuming testing.


The Guantanamo Bay prisoners were held under MILITARY LAW, which is not the same as civilian law. Prisoners can be held as prisoners of war indefinitely or under terms of war conventions and other rules. The president is the Commander In Chief of the armed forces and is the one who would issue release orders. The previous president (Obama) believe Guantanamo should be closed (not accomplished yet) and that the prisoners whould be transferred or released (and how many US prisons can you name that were US territory in a foreign country that we otherwise had no relations with?


But we're not going to send this to P&R, it's about a crime against cyclists.


Originally Posted by noimagination
You seem to be confused regarding the "right to a speedy trial" (6th amendment). This is to prevent the gov't from holding people in prison without trying them (like, the prisoners in Guantanamo bay, for example). The "right to speedy trial" is not some right on the part of society to have defendants tried in a speedy manner. If the guy's attorney is not pressing for a trial (in fact, he's doing the opposite), then there is no other entity that will try to get the trial scheduled. The DA may try to get to trial, and the judge will, but that is for administrative (and political) reasons, not because there is a 6th amendment issue.

As someone said, if the guy is content to rot in jail, then who cares? He's incarcerated, which would be the goal of prosecuting him anyway.

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Old 06-10-17, 10:17 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast
At some point the wait becomes a miscarriage of justice,
Not really in this case; if the defendant was out on bail, using the delays to avoid going back in, or the prosecution kept delaying to keep him in without trial, then sure, but as long as he's in jail and it's his own lawyer dragging things out, justice doesn't yet enter into the equation.
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