Hit and Run caught on GoPro - Driver Charged
07-12-17, 01:23 PM
#101
genec
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I used to do a commute that involved a bit of interstate 5. I got off on the regular ramp, but had to make an immediate left turn at the top... so as I left the freeway, on the right side, I put my arm out and waited for a benevolent driver as I made the slow (much less than 70MPH) climb up the hill and ramp... one always eventually showed up... but there were usually one or two drivers before that, that just didn't get it.
I had a similar situation on the same commute that involved a left turn off a 50MPH arterial road... Sometimes there was no traffic, or I could time a gap... then I'd just signal and go... other times the traffic was real heavy and moving slow... I could negotiate that... and weave my way across the three lanes to the left turn. Other times the drivers were just not into playing... traffic was heavy and fast, and no one wanted to be the one to let a cyclist cross their lane... so I'd go up, make a right, go into a driveway, make a U turn and come back to cross the road I was just on when the light changed. Bottom line, I did what I had to do to make it work...
Drivers are rarely really abusive... they just may not want to cooperate... rarely someone would however go out of their way to just be nasty. Saw one one time that really chapped my hide... girl was trying to negotiate out of a BL that was ending just before a freeway on ramp... she just wanted to cross the ramp and then take the lane ahead. I was in a car and driving... knew right away what she wanted. She signaled and I slowed and allowed for her to start her cross. Guy in a Cadillac SUV came up behind me, laid on the horn, then drove around me on the left and cut right across her in front of me... was a real doosh. After she recovered (she was shaken up) she continued on, and I eventually went to the same ramp to get on the freeway... Well mr doosh was stopped by the on ramp red light... I pulled up next to him and asked why he did that. (two lane ramp) "We can't let damn bikers have control..." Nice attitude mr doosh.
There are all kinds out there.
07-12-17, 01:30 PM
#102
genec
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I'm not surprised I'm in the minority (particularly on a website promoting cycling) but I think the clown on the bike was wrong - not legally, but as someone who should show common courtesy. I mean just because a cyclist has the right to use the entire lane doesn't mean he should. I think most cyclists agree with that, which is why we don't take up more road than we need.
Most bikers have no place important to go and are in no hurry to get there. We tool along at under 20 MPH on roads where 2-ton vehicles can do 2-3 times our speed and many of those drivers have appointments and other responsibilities that shouldn't have to be delayed because an inconsiderate fool wants to demonstrate his right to inconvenience others.
Beyond that, the idea of playing chicken with a car or truck tells me they guy used to ride without his helmet.
For the record, I've been hit by a car and squeezed off the road more than once so I give myself a little extra space when I need it. That doesn't mean I don't care about anyone but myself.
Most bikers have no place important to go and are in no hurry to get there. We tool along at under 20 MPH on roads where 2-ton vehicles can do 2-3 times our speed and many of those drivers have appointments and other responsibilities that shouldn't have to be delayed because an inconsiderate fool wants to demonstrate his right to inconvenience others.
Beyond that, the idea of playing chicken with a car or truck tells me they guy used to ride without his helmet.
For the record, I've been hit by a car and squeezed off the road more than once so I give myself a little extra space when I need it. That doesn't mean I don't care about anyone but myself.
Don't make your judgements of people based on how they transport themselves... you can easily find out just how wrong you are. BTW the Doctor argued against helmet use... his thinking was that people tended to take more risks when they had a helmet on. I still wore my helmet.
07-12-17, 01:50 PM
#103
Full Member
I bike commuted with the CTO of a large tech firm, and a doctor at the local hospital... I guess they had nowhere important to go...
Don't make your judgements of people based on how they transport themselves... you can easily find out just how wrong you are. BTW the Doctor argued against helmet use... his thinking was that people tended to take more risks when they had a helmet on. I still wore my helmet.
Don't make your judgements of people based on how they transport themselves... you can easily find out just how wrong you are. BTW the Doctor argued against helmet use... his thinking was that people tended to take more risks when they had a helmet on. I still wore my helmet.
07-12-17, 02:00 PM
#104
Senior Member
So ... The facts here are ...
-- NARROW lanes with no shoulder.
-- 2 bikes in lane, one has his left hand about 1 foot, maybe 2, from the center lines.
-- Cyclist IGNORED the 3 foot rule in respect to the CAR.
-- Cyclist WRONGLY thought the full lane rule negated that.
-- White truck honked horn and made a close pass.
-- Bicycle made no attempt to move over, going 9 mph.
-- Car driver could have also made a close pass but chose to turn a cyclist into a crash test
DUMMY.
They are BOTH in the wrong 100%. End of story. Clueless operation of moving vehicles.
What if the car was coming from head on ??? And this MORON is beside the center lines ??? WTH
They could still be partially beside each other without crowding the lines.
This is NOT A MUP.
Edit: This guy was riding a bike for the first time in years. So he was just plain clueless. If the camera guy was more experienced, then he certainly deserves some of the blame for the recklessly dangerous behavior.
-- NARROW lanes with no shoulder.
-- 2 bikes in lane, one has his left hand about 1 foot, maybe 2, from the center lines.
-- Cyclist IGNORED the 3 foot rule in respect to the CAR.
-- Cyclist WRONGLY thought the full lane rule negated that.
-- White truck honked horn and made a close pass.
-- Bicycle made no attempt to move over, going 9 mph.
-- Car driver could have also made a close pass but chose to turn a cyclist into a crash test
DUMMY.
They are BOTH in the wrong 100%. End of story. Clueless operation of moving vehicles.
What if the car was coming from head on ??? And this MORON is beside the center lines ??? WTH
They could still be partially beside each other without crowding the lines.
This is NOT A MUP.
Edit: This guy was riding a bike for the first time in years. So he was just plain clueless. If the camera guy was more experienced, then he certainly deserves some of the blame for the recklessly dangerous behavior.
07-12-17, 02:01 PM
#105
genec
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The drivers could have just slowed down... the cyclists could have just singled up, and then a safe pass could have been made when the sight lines were better.
But no matter what... the driver that left the scene after hitting someone... was CLEARLY IN THE WRONG!
07-12-17, 02:04 PM
#106
Senior Member
I'm not surprised I'm in the minority (particularly on a website promoting cycling) but I think the clown on the bike was wrong - not legally, but as someone who should show common courtesy. I mean just because a cyclist has the right to use the entire lane doesn't mean he should. I think most cyclists agree with that, which is why we don't take up more road than we need.
Most bikers have no place important to go and are in no hurry to get there. We tool along at under 20 MPH on roads where 2-ton vehicles can do 2-3 times our speed and many of those drivers have appointments and other responsibilities that shouldn't have to be delayed because an inconsiderate fool wants to demonstrate his right to inconvenience others.
Beyond that, the idea of playing chicken with a car or truck tells me they guy used to ride without his helmet.
For the record, I've been hit by a car and squeezed off the road more than once so I give myself a little extra space when I need it. That doesn't mean I don't care about anyone but myself.
Most bikers have no place important to go and are in no hurry to get there. We tool along at under 20 MPH on roads where 2-ton vehicles can do 2-3 times our speed and many of those drivers have appointments and other responsibilities that shouldn't have to be delayed because an inconsiderate fool wants to demonstrate his right to inconvenience others.
Beyond that, the idea of playing chicken with a car or truck tells me they guy used to ride without his helmet.
For the record, I've been hit by a car and squeezed off the road more than once so I give myself a little extra space when I need it. That doesn't mean I don't care about anyone but myself.
07-12-17, 02:07 PM
#107
Senior Member
IMO the main problem is encapsulated motorists who think that they have the inviolable and sacred right of using their 5000-lb. planet roasters with the impunity that they so please and that a slowdown of 5-10% of their missile-like rate of speed is somehow tantamount to castration without anesthetic. Something's gotta change that psyche.
07-12-17, 02:18 PM
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So both road positions by the cyclist are equally considerate to following drivers - both require the driver to wait for a safe passing opportunity and then to cross the center line to complete the pass.
07-12-17, 02:32 PM
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Your "core point" depends on the assumption that it would in some way be 'more considerate' to the following driver if the cyclists were riding near the right edge of the road rather than in the left and rear tire tracks of the lane. But given the narrowness of the lane, a safe pass by the following driver would still require crossing the center line even if the cyclist were far to the right. So he'd still have to wait until he had a clear view ahead to see that there was no oncoming traffic. And once he had that clear view its really not any harder to move all the way into the far lane as it is to move half way into it - and that's exactly what the signs along that stretch of road suggest: "Bike may use full lane - change lanes to pass."
So both road positions by the cyclist are equally considerate to following drivers - both require the driver to wait for a safe passing opportunity and then to cross the center line to complete the pass.
So both road positions by the cyclist are equally considerate to following drivers - both require the driver to wait for a safe passing opportunity and then to cross the center line to complete the pass.
07-12-17, 02:37 PM
#110
Full Member
self-loathing cyclist
You don't know the meaning of the word "courtesy". Here's a hint. It has something to do with not intentionally hitting someone with your cage.
Look, I'm not suggesting the guy who hit him was right, only that the cyclist acted in a manner most cyclists don't. Just because the driver was wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
Last edited by Tony P.; 07-12-17 at 02:43 PM.
07-12-17, 02:45 PM
#111
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Wrong wrong wrong. The fact that distracted drivers drift over the edge line is exactly why you SHOULD be controlling the lane!! Think about distracted drivers. We've all been distracted behind the wheel at one time or another. Fiddling with the stereo, kids in the car, something fell on the floor, phone, eating, whatever. Do you ever drive for miles and miles and miles on end without looking at the road? No, that's physically impossible. When you're distracted you at least glance at the road every so often to make sure you're still in the lane. And those quick glances are when edge riders get overlooked. Being DIRECTLY in the line of sight of the driver gives you the BEST CHANCE of being seen as early as possibly, sometimes from even a half mile out or more if you have good flashing lights. And when there's something different in the motorist's line of sight, they're more likely to "snap out of it" and pay more attention to that different thing in front of them, at least until they've safely passed that different object (cyclist).
Folks fiddling with their phone-will look down for many seconds at a time-40 mph is 60fps
their occasional glances up-they really aren't "looking" in the paying attention sense-your lane position will only matter in a probability sense(closer to middle is closer to most likely car position)
Nowhere is safe of course-but left of center is the most dangerous in respect to intentional hits.
Besides we can all agree this rider's lane position
GOT HIM HIT-
If he was FRAP -no contact
Score one for the FRAPPERS
07-12-17, 03:00 PM
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07-12-17, 03:03 PM
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IMO the main problem is encapsulated motorists who think that they have the inviolable and sacred right of using their 5000-lb. planet roasters with the impunity that they so please and that a slowdown of 5-10% of their missile-like rate of speed is somehow tantamount to castration without anesthetic. Something's gotta change that psyche.
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07-12-17, 03:18 PM
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The cyclist was not inconsiderate, nor in the wrong IMHO. Lane is too narrow to safely share, therefore FRAP means, literally, out in the lane. FRAP laws all specify that riding the right edge is not required with narrow lanes, whether or not there is debris or other conditions there, and the only reason for that exception is that the cyclist may find it safer to move into the lane. Safer. Legal. Not in the wrong, and therefore not inconsiderate.
It was his first ride in 25 years. A more experienced rider might have moved right after the pickup passed, with the solid yellow and that left turn coming up that you can't see around. You might be wary, suspicious of a possible idiot behind the pickup who might over-react if he suddenly sees a vehicle rounding the turn. But that's not to say that the cyclist did anything wrong, and in fact I don't see him as in any way even partially responsible. It might have taken another second to get beyond him - there was no urgency, not even any actual gain nor any other legitimate reason for the driver to want to get back in the lane any more quickly. I suspect that's why he has been charged with hitting him deliberately.
It was his first ride in 25 years. A more experienced rider might have moved right after the pickup passed, with the solid yellow and that left turn coming up that you can't see around. You might be wary, suspicious of a possible idiot behind the pickup who might over-react if he suddenly sees a vehicle rounding the turn. But that's not to say that the cyclist did anything wrong, and in fact I don't see him as in any way even partially responsible. It might have taken another second to get beyond him - there was no urgency, not even any actual gain nor any other legitimate reason for the driver to want to get back in the lane any more quickly. I suspect that's why he has been charged with hitting him deliberately.
07-12-17, 03:22 PM
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Like genec said
You can't control a car by bike positioning
The rider in question was attempting to do just that.
Lane controlling only "works" with competent sober not AH drivers-who aren't going to hit you no matter your lane position.
It obviously enrages some drivers-enough to hit you.
If you want to be a martyr-LC might be for you.
Oh-the driver-if he is very affluent-won't go to jail.
He will buy off the rider-and the rider will agree to some sort of "no jail time" plea.
Now if he is short of funds-different story.
The no significant injury-amply demonstrated on the video-is unhelpful in respect to "put him in jail"
That MD in LA had to put a couple of riders through his back window to get a few years in jail.
No injury means no jail-if he has adequate -PLENTY of $$
The rider if he insists on jail-won't get "much money"
Most jurors-drive-they don't ride bicycles-and they won't like a road hog rider.
Fair chance they have daydreamed about doing just what that driver did(but will never admit to)
No jail-just watch-no jail if he gets a good shill and generously buys off the rider
Hey his insurer-is probably on the hook-for some of this-
NO JAIL because no blood and he looked TOO GOOD on the video
Video cut both ways this time
You can't control a car by bike positioning
The rider in question was attempting to do just that.
Lane controlling only "works" with competent sober not AH drivers-who aren't going to hit you no matter your lane position.
It obviously enrages some drivers-enough to hit you.
If you want to be a martyr-LC might be for you.
Oh-the driver-if he is very affluent-won't go to jail.
He will buy off the rider-and the rider will agree to some sort of "no jail time" plea.
Now if he is short of funds-different story.
The no significant injury-amply demonstrated on the video-is unhelpful in respect to "put him in jail"
That MD in LA had to put a couple of riders through his back window to get a few years in jail.
No injury means no jail-if he has adequate -PLENTY of $$
The rider if he insists on jail-won't get "much money"
Most jurors-drive-they don't ride bicycles-and they won't like a road hog rider.
Fair chance they have daydreamed about doing just what that driver did(but will never admit to)
No jail-just watch-no jail if he gets a good shill and generously buys off the rider
Hey his insurer-is probably on the hook-for some of this-
NO JAIL because no blood and he looked TOO GOOD on the video
Video cut both ways this time
07-12-17, 03:25 PM
#116
Senior Member
Bet you can't say three times fast.
Wrong. Courtesy means: the showing of politeness in one's attitude and behavior toward others. Which is what the guy on the bike didn't do.
Look, I'm not suggesting the guy who hit him was right, only that the cyclist acted in a manner most cyclists don't. Just because the driver was wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
Wrong. Courtesy means: the showing of politeness in one's attitude and behavior toward others. Which is what the guy on the bike didn't do.
Look, I'm not suggesting the guy who hit him was right, only that the cyclist acted in a manner most cyclists don't. Just because the driver was wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
Here's what you're doing. You 're viewing this out of it's context. A previous poster said that this wasn't a MUP. But the truth is, it's closer to an MUP than it is a road. The road itself is a National PARK. You already know about the signage telling motorists that bikes may use full lane. It doesn't go into subtleties. That tells me that this place is different. My car is not #1 here. Even if you delude yourself into thinking the riders were being jerks on a PARK road, the most the riders would have delayed the car was a maximum of 10 seconds. Marshall Grant Neely, III said he was driving on the Trace to "relax". I wonder if the fact that the rider Marshall Grant Neely,III hit with is car was riding with youthful joy and enthusiasm made him seem more like a jerk than say a roadie riding purposefully and taking the lane as part of a proper defensive strategy. You qualify everything, which implicitly excuses the driver. You could simply state the truth. The driver was completely wrong. Absolutely nothing that cyclist did makes any difference whatsoever. He w could have been popping wheelies while flipping the guy off with both hands. You don't intentionally hit a vulnerable human being with a car.
07-12-17, 04:00 PM
#117
Senior Member
So you don't like the cyclist being on the road or taking his position. What's the justification of the retaliation?
Why is bad driving acceptable?
"Fifty-one percent of Americans report that they loathe sharing the road with bad drivers, more than cyclists, buses, taxis, joggers and walkers combined."
Expedia Road Rage Report
viewfinder.expedia.com/news/expedia-2015-road-rage-report-texters-enrage-fellow-drivers-most-edging-tailgaters-and-left-lane-hogs-on-list-of-most-deplorable-driver-behaviors/amp/
Why is bad driving acceptable?
"Fifty-one percent of Americans report that they loathe sharing the road with bad drivers, more than cyclists, buses, taxis, joggers and walkers combined."
Expedia Road Rage Report
viewfinder.expedia.com/news/expedia-2015-road-rage-report-texters-enrage-fellow-drivers-most-edging-tailgaters-and-left-lane-hogs-on-list-of-most-deplorable-driver-behaviors/amp/
07-12-17, 04:25 PM
#118
genec
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Like genec said
You can't control a car by bike positioning
The rider in question was attempting to do just that.
Lane controlling only "works" with competent sober not AH drivers-who aren't going to hit you no matter your lane position.
It obviously enrages some drivers-enough to hit you.
If you want to be a martyr-LC might be for you.
Oh-the driver-if he is very affluent-won't go to jail.
He will buy off the rider-and the rider will agree to some sort of "no jail time" plea.
Now if he is short of funds-different story.
The no significant injury-amply demonstrated on the video-is unhelpful in respect to "put him in jail"
That MD in LA had to put a couple of riders through his back window to get a few years in jail.
No injury means no jail-if he has adequate -PLENTY of $$
The rider if he insists on jail-won't get "much money"
Most jurors-drive-they don't ride bicycles-and they won't like a road hog rider.
Fair chance they have daydreamed about doing just what that driver did(but will never admit to)
No jail-just watch-no jail if he gets a good shill and generously buys off the rider
Hey his insurer-is probably on the hook-for some of this-
NO JAIL because no blood and he looked TOO GOOD on the video
Video cut both ways this time
You can't control a car by bike positioning
The rider in question was attempting to do just that.
Lane controlling only "works" with competent sober not AH drivers-who aren't going to hit you no matter your lane position.
It obviously enrages some drivers-enough to hit you.
If you want to be a martyr-LC might be for you.
Oh-the driver-if he is very affluent-won't go to jail.
He will buy off the rider-and the rider will agree to some sort of "no jail time" plea.
Now if he is short of funds-different story.
The no significant injury-amply demonstrated on the video-is unhelpful in respect to "put him in jail"
That MD in LA had to put a couple of riders through his back window to get a few years in jail.
No injury means no jail-if he has adequate -PLENTY of $$
The rider if he insists on jail-won't get "much money"
Most jurors-drive-they don't ride bicycles-and they won't like a road hog rider.
Fair chance they have daydreamed about doing just what that driver did(but will never admit to)
No jail-just watch-no jail if he gets a good shill and generously buys off the rider
Hey his insurer-is probably on the hook-for some of this-
NO JAIL because no blood and he looked TOO GOOD on the video
Video cut both ways this time
But you do NOT leave the scene of a collision, and then go and lie about it.
Throw the bum in jail.
The driver had no idea of the condition of his victim, for all he knew as he drove off, the guy was dead...
and he drove off and lied about it.
Throw the bum in jail.
No, a cyclist cannot control a lane, but by the same token, a motorist does not own the lane...
and acting like a jerk is not being a cooperative road user...
Throw the bum in jail.
07-12-17, 05:22 PM
#119
Full Member
You still don't know what "courtesy" means.
Here's what you're doing. You 're viewing this out of it's context. A previous poster said that this wasn't a MUP. But the truth is, it's closer to an MUP than it is a road. The road itself is a National PARK. You already know about the signage telling motorists that bikes may use full lane. It doesn't go into subtleties. That tells me that this place is different. My car is not #1 here. Even if you delude yourself into thinking the riders were being jerks on a PARK road, the most the riders would have delayed the car was a maximum of 10 seconds. Marshall Grant Neely, III said he was driving on the Trace to "relax". I wonder if the fact that the rider Marshall Grant Neely,III hit with is car was riding with youthful joy and enthusiasm made him seem more like a jerk than say a roadie riding purposefully and taking the lane as part of a proper defensive strategy. You qualify everything, which implicitly excuses the driver. You could simply state the truth. The driver was completely wrong. Absolutely nothing that cyclist did makes any difference whatsoever. He w could have been popping wheelies while flipping the guy off with both hands. You don't intentionally hit a vulnerable human being with a car.
Here's what you're doing. You 're viewing this out of it's context. A previous poster said that this wasn't a MUP. But the truth is, it's closer to an MUP than it is a road. The road itself is a National PARK. You already know about the signage telling motorists that bikes may use full lane. It doesn't go into subtleties. That tells me that this place is different. My car is not #1 here. Even if you delude yourself into thinking the riders were being jerks on a PARK road, the most the riders would have delayed the car was a maximum of 10 seconds. Marshall Grant Neely, III said he was driving on the Trace to "relax". I wonder if the fact that the rider Marshall Grant Neely,III hit with is car was riding with youthful joy and enthusiasm made him seem more like a jerk than say a roadie riding purposefully and taking the lane as part of a proper defensive strategy. You qualify everything, which implicitly excuses the driver. You could simply state the truth. The driver was completely wrong. Absolutely nothing that cyclist did makes any difference whatsoever. He w could have been popping wheelies while flipping the guy off with both hands. You don't intentionally hit a vulnerable human being with a car.
Here's another point of disagreement:
My car is not #1 here.
There are, though, 4 things I can say with 100% absolute certainty:
1. Yes, the driver was absolutely wrong.
2. The driver being absolutely wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
3. The cyclist could have been killed or suffer a permanent injury making it foolish of the cyclist to do what he did.
4. No bike ever went up against a car and won the fight.
Last edited by Tony P.; 07-12-17 at 05:32 PM.
07-12-17, 05:31 PM
#120
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Genec
Like I said-LC-ing only works with Not AH drivers
That driver -a liar who hit the rider-left him in the road-then -lied-incompetently lied
is an AH (A WHOLE)
Yeah he deserves jail-but if he hires a good lawyer
shuts his mouth
buys off the rider so the rider won't oppose a NO JAIL plea
he will dodge jail
The DA won't feel much pressure on this case-because no broken bones no blood no injury to speak of
and he-DA-will know that the drivers on that jury(won't go to trial,but)
will look at that video-and see a rider "intentionally forcing the driver into oncoming traffic"
No I don't see it that way-but drivers-will not have warm feeling for the riders
Just read the comments sections
NO JAIL
Like I said-LC-ing only works with Not AH drivers
That driver -a liar who hit the rider-left him in the road-then -lied-incompetently lied
is an AH (A WHOLE)
Yeah he deserves jail-but if he hires a good lawyer
shuts his mouth
buys off the rider so the rider won't oppose a NO JAIL plea
he will dodge jail
The DA won't feel much pressure on this case-because no broken bones no blood no injury to speak of
and he-DA-will know that the drivers on that jury(won't go to trial,but)
will look at that video-and see a rider "intentionally forcing the driver into oncoming traffic"
No I don't see it that way-but drivers-will not have warm feeling for the riders
Just read the comments sections
NO JAIL
07-12-17, 05:49 PM
#121
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Clearly if these people had all been cycling in the middle of the road they would not have been hit since that's not where the cars which struck them were.
Whenever a crash occurs one can always say that somewhere else would have been a better place to be - but that's not an appropriate way to evaluate relative risk.
07-12-17, 06:03 PM
#122
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So can we use this same type of analysis to other bicycle injuries/fatalities? The three most recent fatalities that I remember locally involved two cyclists (father and young daughter) riding on a sidewalk when struck by an SUV driver who lost control (a hydrant and storefront were also largely destroyed) and a woman riding with her husband single-file on the shoulder when struck by a car which also took out a lamp post and some signs.
Clearly if these people had all been cycling in the middle of the road they would not have been hit since that's not where the cars which struck them were.
Whenever a crash occurs one can always say that somewhere else would have been a better place to be - but that's not an appropriate way to evaluate relative risk.
Clearly if these people had all been cycling in the middle of the road they would not have been hit since that's not where the cars which struck them were.
Whenever a crash occurs one can always say that somewhere else would have been a better place to be - but that's not an appropriate way to evaluate relative risk.
07-12-17, 06:32 PM
#123
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Don't blame the INEXPERIENCED victim
I really take offense to Tony P. referring to the cyclist who was hit as a "clown". If you took the time to read the article in the Tennessee newspaper you would see that he was an inexperienced cyclist. According to the article, it was the first time he had been on a bike since he was a kid. His riding buddy picked a poor choice of roads for taking an inexperienced cyclist on a ride. Nothing excuses the driver from having purposely run down the cyclist and then leaving the scene of the accident. I hope they sue the hell out of him. There was also a post somewhere from this guy's son. He was getting really nasty comments on his website (they have the same name). The son's comment about the dad painted him to be a really deplorable individual.
07-12-17, 06:33 PM
#124
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This is exactly like pedestrians in crosswalks. Just because cars must stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk doesn't mean they shouldn't look before crossing the street.
Here's another point of disagreement:
The fact is cars are always #1 versus bikes.
There are, though, 4 things I can say with 100% absolute certainty:
1. Yes, the driver was absolutely wrong.
2. The driver being absolutely wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
3. The cyclist could have been killed or suffer a permanent injury making it foolish of the cyclist to do what he did.
4. No bike ever went up against a car and won the fight.
Here's another point of disagreement:
The fact is cars are always #1 versus bikes.
There are, though, 4 things I can say with 100% absolute certainty:
1. Yes, the driver was absolutely wrong.
2. The driver being absolutely wrong doesn't make the cyclist right.
3. The cyclist could have been killed or suffer a permanent injury making it foolish of the cyclist to do what he did.
4. No bike ever went up against a car and won the fight.
07-12-17, 06:59 PM
#125
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