HiBoost

I'm trying to decide between these two without being able to ride either (size 61 riders don't often find what they want in stock 'round here!). This is further made difficult by the relative lack of popularity of either model. For the models I'm considering, both have Ultegra DI2 and wheels not worth mentioning. The C5 should be a tad lighter, the Paralane has a bit more tire clearance (35 vs 32).

I currently have an R3 with HED Jet Black 6s w/GP4000s (23c but measure at 27.5 on these wheels) for dedicated road, and I have a Sequoia set up tubeless with Gravel King SK 35c for dedicated gravel. What I'm looking for in this third bike is one that makes me wonder why I even have the other two I want it to be just as fast on the road, and just as capable on offroad. Obviously this can't happen 100%, but that's the hypothetical goal. I would be pairing the new bike with some type of wider performance wheel, the contenders being Roval CLX 50, HED Vanquish 6, and ENVE 4.5AR. Tire would be a measured 30 or so but likely a 28c designation.

Anybody have any real world experience with both of these bikes to be able to offer some points of contrast perhaps? With both bikes I'd have the option of having the stock wheels with gravel tires and the new wheels with road tires, but that sort of gets me back to having to decide which way I'm going to ride prior to leaving. At that point I might as well pick between my two existing bikes. I'd really like something that I can just hit the road and not have to care. It would be 75% paved at least, but around here it is hugely useful to be able to ride gravel roads as connectors between paved routes.

Thanks!

Seattle Forrest

Never been on a Focus Paralane. But I ride a C3 with Enve 4.5 ARs and Ultegra Di2.

If you want a fondo bike, fast and nimble on pavement, also fast and nimble on dirt roads, it's an amazing bike.

HiBoost

I think you must have the only one in North America lol... I have read your past posts when you got the bike so it was good to hear your thoughts were favorable. I went ahead with the C5 + ENVE 4.5AR combo. My only concern at this point is tire selection. It seems a bit crazy to me that these wheels are tubeless *only*. Seems like we are at a point in time where all wheels should support non-tubeless and tubeless and the omission of either potentially limits tire selection fairly significantly. I've ridden Conti tires exclusively for over 20 years and they don't make anything tubeless. The Schwalbe Pro One gets great reviews from magazines and "professionals" but the net is littered with "these tires suck, on my 6th pair, cut up and destroyed after 100 miles" types of posts and videos. Don't know what to think there... What tires do you run on the 4.5s?

Seattle Forrest

I figured it would make more sense to let you ask questions about stuff that’s relevant to you, than for me to just babble.

Pro Ones are fantastic tires if you only ride them on pavement. Too many ride-ending cuts on dirt roads. I’m riding IRC Formula tires, I can’t remember off hand whether they’re the “Roadlite” or “RBCC” ones. They’re expensive, but they’re also great tires: light, supple, grippy, and tough. Like all good tubeless tires, these are expensive; unlike other ones, I haven’t been able to find them on sale.

I don’t have calipers, but I spent a lot of time reading. Other people say the 28 mm tires (assuming you got clinchers?) measure 33.1 mm on these rims. If you’re brave you might be able to go to 35 mm, it gets tight where the chainstays leave the BB shell.

FWIW, Enve says when they were developing the 4.5 ARs, they did a lot of their wind tunnel testing with the wheels in a C5.

Bah Humbug

My wife's tri coach has a C5 (he's a big Cervelo guy; was sponsored by them when he was a pro) and loves it.

On tubeless tires, they're still expensive but I've been toying with the Fusion5 11Storms. They're "fine"; I've only used them at COTA so far so I can't speak to durability, but they're comfy when aired down lower than I like my GP4Ks. The regular Fusion5s are a popular all-round road/training tire on WW, where there's been more adoption of tubeless. Personally though, I don't know if I'll get another set, and right now tubeless still seems to need a bit more baking. Overall, I still prefer my Contis, but I'm a tri geek and the whole community is married to those tires.

HiBoost

Yeah like I said this is definitely the fly in the ointment on the 4.5 ARs in my mind. I definitely want to *try* various tubeless tires, but I don't want to be stuck with them if I can't find good substitutes for my Gators and 4000s... If we forget about performance for a minute (I know, then why am I buying any of this gear lol) are there any tubeless tires that are agreed upon as bombproof like a gatorskin? Or is everybody in the tubeless game at this point trying to eek out watts and make things as supple as possible? I will say that my gravel king sk's have been totally reliable in terms of punctures (none) and sealing (hold air for weeks at time) and they are very plush.... but they aren't exactly speedy on the pavement

Thanks for the positive datapoint on the C5 as well!

Bah Humbug

There's no consensus tire really, which is one of the problems. The closest would probably be a Fusion5; the ProOne is a fast-but-fragile tire that'll either be great and all the holes will seal, or a nightmare of spraying sealant and frequent replacement, depending on whom you ask and where you ride. Hutchinson is manufacturing most of the new entrants' tires (like Pirelli), and they're "good". This gets to the core of the problem though: as near as I can tell, there's no "great" tire out there. The GP4K is really durable, lasts a while, and super aero when new. Over in my world, not only will no one question you when you run one (unless they think you should roll the dice on racing SuperSonics!), they'll question you if you don't. By contrast, tubeless has a number of "good" tires (which have been mentioned), but with Conti and Michelin sitting on the sidelines, the favored manufacturers of most people just aren't there. My hope was that the 11Storm compound would match the Black Chili compound, and in fairness I've mounted them on much cheaper wheels, but they don't feel as fast somehow.

Seattle Forrest

There's a gravel subforum here, you might find more advice about tires in there. Most people want to run 80 mm tires in there.

I've never had a flat on my IRC tires. They've had a lot more opportunities to get cut on nasty rocks, but never a problem.

HiBoost

if you wouldn't mind double checking the specific model tire, and size, in the next few days I'd really appreciate it. Sounds like we have similar goals and the same wheels so I'd like to start with what is working for you

HiBoost

Seattle, what air pressure do you run in your IRCs? I've read some reviews suggesting they need a little more pressure, like 100psi or they feel "flat". The 4.5 ARs of course say 80psi is the max, so just wondering what your experience was.

Also, have you guys seen that Goodyear is doing bike tires again now? All their models are tubeless. They don't have a race tire yet, but their standard "Eagle" road tire looks like it could be worth trying too...

Seattle Forrest

I've been meaning to grab the name off the side of the tire for you but I keep getting distracted. Sorry for not replying with that already.

I'm running tubeless. You can use tubes but you have to use tubeless tires, so why the hell not go all out? Anyway I'm mentioning that to put the pressure numbers into context.

I run them around 65/75 psi F/R. That's nominal 28 mm tires, effectively 33 mm.

It feels different from pumping 23 mms up to 110/120 psi. But the rim isn't hitting seams in the pavement.

Seattle Forrest

Nevermind. Found a photo on my phone. What's printed on the tire is: irc formula pro tubeless rbcc.

HiBoost

Awesome, thanks!

My only tubeless experience so far is on the Sequoia with the 35c gravel kings at 33/38 F/R psi. It is crazy how smooth and quick it rolls. I average 17 or so riding that and maybe 19 at the same effort on my GP4000 on the R3. So it makes a difference when comparing times, but certainly doesn't feel slow while riding. With this new setup, I'm hoping to have a tire that will be 90% of the way towards the 4000 in terms of speed and 90% of the way towards the GKs in terms of comfort.

And I'm glad to hear you aren't banging those 4.5s off the pavement on every crack lol, that would be a sick feeling that I hope I don't ever experience!

Seattle Forrest

Two more things about the wheels.

I'm pretty heavy by road standards. I'm tall, I have a wide frame, I lift heavy in the gym. I beat the crap out of these wheels, climbing and descending rough dirt roads with lots of potholes and embedded rocks. I try to ride around things but it's impossible a lot of the time. Wheels are still true.

They're so much easier to control in a side wind than they have any right to be. But being a heavy rider helps with that too.

HiBoost

That all sounds good... I'm 6'4" and 190lbs so I had checked with ENVE previously to make sure these wouldn't require a "clydesdale" build or anything like that. He said they were good up to 290lbs so I've got room to grow lol

I'll definitely report back once the build is complete, really appreciate the help!

HiBoost

I've been slow moving on my build due to travel but I'm finally getting things together now. I mounted the first IRC on the rear 4.5 and OMG, I cannot believe how hard it was to get on the rim. I can get a GP4000 or Gatorskin on my HED Jet Black or my Ultegra rims in my sleep. Not to sound like a d-bag but I've literally had people say to me that they've never seen anybody make putting a tire on look so easy. But with the ENVE + IRC I damn near gave up. I started opposite the valve stem. Had the bead in the middle, deepest part of the rim. Used a soapy water mixture liberally. And now - after 30+ minutes of sweating and cursing - I have dime-sized blisters on both thumbs from pushing so hard to get the beads over the lip. The one side I got on by hand fully, the other side I finally gave up and used a plastic tire lever to get the last 6" over. Is it always this bad?? I cannot imagine any way possible to put a tube in these things roadside if needed unless they really loosen up after being mounted for a bit. I'm a bit stressed by this whole ordeal honestly...

Seattle Forrest

Sorry I never got you a picture. I just got back from a week in the North Cascades wilderness.

I've always paid a shop to do the tires for me. I got 1,200 flat-free miles out of the IRC.