UST road tubeless compatible brands other than Mavic
05-20-18, 10:19 AM
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UST road tubeless compatible brands other than Mavic
So I purchased Mavic Cosmic Elite centerlock disc wheels for my Wittson titanium disc road bike that I’m building. I got them for a good price and they look like they should be good to go with minimal fuss. The preinstalled Yksion UST 700 X 25 mm tires seem nice. I heard that these are the best tubeless fit for the UST design rims. But I also have heard that their tread life is nothing special. I guess I’ll just need to put them into service and see.
So when checking prices online for the Yksion UST tires in either 25 or 28mm size, I notice they run expensive _ about $75 each. This got me wondering about other tubeless brands. Does anyone know between like Hutchinson. Panaracer, WTB or some other brand? I’d love it if I could find a non Mavic brand that was easy to mount, could run on the UST rims with no sealant and priced below ~$50 per tire.
i know this is probably asking a lot. For a perfect fit I suppose I could run the Yskion’s again if they turn out to be the best option after all. Thanks for any advice you can give.
So when checking prices online for the Yksion UST tires in either 25 or 28mm size, I notice they run expensive _ about $75 each. This got me wondering about other tubeless brands. Does anyone know between like Hutchinson. Panaracer, WTB or some other brand? I’d love it if I could find a non Mavic brand that was easy to mount, could run on the UST rims with no sealant and priced below ~$50 per tire.
i know this is probably asking a lot. For a perfect fit I suppose I could run the Yskion’s again if they turn out to be the best option after all. Thanks for any advice you can give.
05-21-18, 08:25 AM
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As far as I'm aware, right now Mavic is the only brand producing "UST" for road tubeless. That being said, their "UST" tires are manufactured by Hutchinson and apparently are very similar to Hutchinson's newest Fusion 5 Performance tire (both have the same 11Storm compound). I've seen some posts elsewhere that tend to indicate that other brands road tubeless tires work just fine on the Mavic UST rims, but keep in mind that Mavic will probably cite "possible incompatibility" if you were to ask them or request a warranty claim.
---edit---
One thing I will mention, having run tubeless on road for about 10 years now, I would not recommend running tubeless tires without sealant, even if you technically can. I suppose if you're racing a crit on a closed course, maybe, but if you're doing that, you're probably going to want a higher end tire, which will require sealant.
---edit---
One thing I will mention, having run tubeless on road for about 10 years now, I would not recommend running tubeless tires without sealant, even if you technically can. I suppose if you're racing a crit on a closed course, maybe, but if you're doing that, you're probably going to want a higher end tire, which will require sealant.
Last edited by pesty; 05-21-18 at 08:30 AM.
05-21-18, 09:04 AM
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It's funny that they're trying to push this as a standard yet they don't have a website (not that I see, at least) separate from their brand that's dedicated to the standard and the products/manufacturers that employ them. Even Cannondale had the wherewithal to spring for a BB30 website.
05-21-18, 09:10 AM
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As far as I'm aware, right now Mavic is the only brand producing "UST" for road tubeless. That being said, their "UST" tires are manufactured by Hutchinson and apparently are very similar to Hutchinson's newest Fusion 5 Performance tire (both have the same 11Storm compound). I've seen some posts elsewhere that tend to indicate that other brands road tubeless tires work just fine on the Mavic UST rims, but keep in mind that Mavic will probably cite "possible incompatibility" if you were to ask them or request a warranty claim.
---edit---
One thing I will mention, having run tubeless on road for about 10 years now, I would not recommend running tubeless tires without sealant, even if you technically can. I suppose if you're racing a crit on a closed course, maybe, but if you're doing that, you're probably going to want a higher end tire, which will require sealant.
---edit---
One thing I will mention, having run tubeless on road for about 10 years now, I would not recommend running tubeless tires without sealant, even if you technically can. I suppose if you're racing a crit on a closed course, maybe, but if you're doing that, you're probably going to want a higher end tire, which will require sealant.
05-21-18, 09:22 AM
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thanks for getting the conversation started. The Cosmic Elite UST wheelset that I bought is new but it didn’t come with any paperwork. So I son’t Know the procedure for adding seals (having only used tubes up until now). I’ll take a look at the Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance tire.
1. inflate the tire to get the bead up on the rim ledge
2. remove the valve core
3. use a giant syringe with a rubber tube (afew brands sell them, mine is Stan's) to squirt about 2oz of sealant into the tire.
4. Re-install the valve core and inflate.
5. Clean up any sealant that may have gotten on the rim/stem
There is also the MTB method, which is to put sealant in the tire before getting the bead on the rim, but that is EXTREMELY messy with the small profile of road tires.
Quick google search should yield a plethora of instructional videos. One thing I would strongly recommend having is an air compressor or a pump with a tank designed for inflating tubeless tires for getting the bead seated on the rim ledge. I'd also strongly recommend against using CO2 in tires with sealant in them unless it's an absolute emergency, the CO2 comes out cold enough to flash harden the sealant (this is why I cary a mini-pump on the road).
05-21-18, 12:25 PM
#6
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If you read this post from Mavic
Road UST: EASY. SAFE. FAST. - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk
they claim only Mavic branded tires are within the tight tolerance range to safely and easily install on a Mavic rim. Whether this is just marketing talk or true I can't say but it makes some sense that another brand tire may have a "large" diameter and you put it on a UST rim, it will be easy to mount but at the risk of blowing off if you inflate to a high pressure. Alternatively a "small" tire will be hard/impossible to mount.
This may explain why there are so many reports of hard to mount tires (and others who say the same tire is easy) but I don't see a lot of reports of tubeless tires blowing off rims regardless of brand. My guess is that any other brand tire is going to be fine as long as you do not run at the limits ie a very wide tire on a narrow rim and/or high pressures. Also, don't expect it to be easy to mount.
Road UST: EASY. SAFE. FAST. - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk
they claim only Mavic branded tires are within the tight tolerance range to safely and easily install on a Mavic rim. Whether this is just marketing talk or true I can't say but it makes some sense that another brand tire may have a "large" diameter and you put it on a UST rim, it will be easy to mount but at the risk of blowing off if you inflate to a high pressure. Alternatively a "small" tire will be hard/impossible to mount.
This may explain why there are so many reports of hard to mount tires (and others who say the same tire is easy) but I don't see a lot of reports of tubeless tires blowing off rims regardless of brand. My guess is that any other brand tire is going to be fine as long as you do not run at the limits ie a very wide tire on a narrow rim and/or high pressures. Also, don't expect it to be easy to mount.
05-21-18, 12:40 PM
#7
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Assuming the valve has a removable core, the method I use is:
1. inflate the tire to get the bead up on the rim ledge
2. remove the valve core
3. use a giant syringe with a rubber tube (afew brands sell them, mine is Stan's) to squirt about 2oz of sealant into the tire.
4. Re-install the valve core and inflate.
5. Clean up any sealant that may have gotten on the rim/stem
1. inflate the tire to get the bead up on the rim ledge
2. remove the valve core
3. use a giant syringe with a rubber tube (afew brands sell them, mine is Stan's) to squirt about 2oz of sealant into the tire.
4. Re-install the valve core and inflate.
5. Clean up any sealant that may have gotten on the rim/stem
05-21-18, 01:39 PM
#8
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This is how I do it too. Much less mess than trying to seat the beads with sealant in the tire. I am currently at 2400 miles on my Yksion USTs and have the next set ready to go. I’ll probably go to the new ones in anride or two. It would be nice to hear if any one has had success with a non Mavic tubeless option.
05-21-18, 01:50 PM
#9
SuperGimp
You can probably find tires at one of the usual GB bike shops (wiggle, ribble, PBK, chain reaction, merlin.... pick one) for significantly less than your LBS will have them. Most tubeless tires, even the non UST variety are more expensive than regular tires. I think I paid just over $80 a tire for hutchinson Secteur when I bought them.
05-21-18, 02:31 PM
#10
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I ordered them from some joint called Blue sky Cycling out of So Cal. Paid $60 a tire plus $10 shipping for both. I found some cheaper, but I wanted to stick with some place in the US so I wouldn't have to wait as long for shipping since my current set is about dead.
05-21-18, 03:08 PM
#11
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So I purchased Mavic Cosmic Elite centerlock disc wheels for my Wittson titanium disc road bike that I’m building. I got them for a good price and they look like they should be good to go with minimal fuss. The preinstalled Yksion UST 700 X 25 mm tires seem nice. I heard that these are the best tubeless fit for the UST design rims. But I also have heard that their tread life is nothing special. I guess I’ll just need to put them into service and see.
So when checking prices online for the Yksion UST tires in either 25 or 28mm size, I notice they run expensive _ about $75 each. This got me wondering about other tubeless brands. Does anyone know between like Hutchinson. Panaracer, WTB or some other brand? I’d love it if I could find a non Mavic brand that was easy to mount, could run on the UST rims with no sealant and priced below ~$50 per tire.
i know this is probably asking a lot. For a perfect fit I suppose I could run the Yskion’s again if they turn out to be the best option after all. Thanks for any advice you can give.
So when checking prices online for the Yksion UST tires in either 25 or 28mm size, I notice they run expensive _ about $75 each. This got me wondering about other tubeless brands. Does anyone know between like Hutchinson. Panaracer, WTB or some other brand? I’d love it if I could find a non Mavic brand that was easy to mount, could run on the UST rims with no sealant and priced below ~$50 per tire.
i know this is probably asking a lot. For a perfect fit I suppose I could run the Yskion’s again if they turn out to be the best option after all. Thanks for any advice you can give.
05-21-18, 04:25 PM
#12
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I've looked at buying Mavic rims and tires from UK and Euro stores where the prices are significantly lower than the US but if you try to ship they all say unable to ship to your location - presumably because Mavic has placed a moratorium on shipping to US.
05-22-18, 07:09 AM
#13
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Its not a lot to ask for, but sadly this is the way the bike industry is moving. Everything ever more proprietary. $75 is outrageous and only possible because there is no non Mavic UST road tyres. Quality tyres is available at less than half that, but you may need to stick a tube in there (assuming they will fit a UST rim?)
I would love to try the Schwalbe pro ones on the Mavic UST wheels, but the experience with the happy mediums makes me pause until I hear if someone else has had any luck.
05-22-18, 08:19 AM
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If you are using tubes, then pretty much any tire will work. I have tried gp4000 IIs with tubes and no problems all be it more of a test ride and not any long term feedback. The issue is going to be with how the or, more appropriately, if the beads actually seat without tubes and if the beads are of a different shape or dimension on RUST than other road tubeless tires. For instance, I have Kenda Happy medium's for my gravel bike. I ride them with tubes on that bike, but they are supposed to be tubeless ready. I did a test mount with the happy mediums on my Mavic UST wheels and they never would hold pressure. They sounded like they seated and I got pressure up to 70# which is high for the 40C width of the tire but I still could hear air around the seams. They deflated to atmosphere pressure in a few minutes.
I would love to try the Schwalbe pro ones on the Mavic UST wheels, but the experience with the happy mediums makes me pause until I hear if someone else has had any luck.
I would love to try the Schwalbe pro ones on the Mavic UST wheels, but the experience with the happy mediums makes me pause until I hear if someone else has had any luck.
05-22-18, 10:52 AM
#15
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I think Mavic's UST proposal is laudable but perhaps other manufactures do not want to support it as they each want to be known as the standard. I think if Mavic had been more collaborative and aligned a few big rim & tire manufactures together around UST and with multiple brands of rim and tires at launch date it would take off. I feel we may be looking at another octalink vs ISIS type situation where the other brands of bottom brackets said screw-you to Shimano's design and came up with their own. I can see Shimano soon launching their own new rims/tire standard (to "provide surety and certainty...") then the big Taiwanese brands launching another - all to be swept away when some new technology comes along (helium aero gel filled tires???) and we start again.
And as an aside, I've been running Conti 4000ii 25mm & tubes on these rims for almost a year and no issues at all except seating needs 100+ psi or else they self seat after a few 100ks of riding. Mounting is not easy though...
And as an aside, I've been running Conti 4000ii 25mm & tubes on these rims for almost a year and no issues at all except seating needs 100+ psi or else they self seat after a few 100ks of riding. Mounting is not easy though...
05-22-18, 11:46 AM
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Its not a lot to ask for, but sadly this is the way the bike industry is moving. Everything ever more proprietary. $75 is outrageous and only possible because there is no non Mavic UST road tyres. Quality tyres is available at less than half that, but you may need to stick a tube in there (assuming they will fit a UST rim?)
No...$70 it about par for what good road cycling tires cost. Schwalbe, Hutchinson, Vittoria... All charge about that.
That being said road pricing is ridiculous. My 700Cx45mm gravel tubeless tires that have 2-3x as much material cost half of that.
05-23-18, 03:52 AM
#17
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I dunno really. Seems to me the quoted $75 price tag is on the heavy end, even compared to other manufacturers high end offerings. Have no idea if the Mavic UST tyres are considered "high end", but from my experience there is always quality road tyres to be had at reasonable prices, way lower than $75, if you shop a little, where as vendor lock in largely sidesteps that kind of normal competition. Its the expensive, proprietary chain ring scheme spawning in to tyres and wheel as well. Only this time its Mavic and this time its a part that needs replacing much more often than chain rings. Plus there is the down side of hard to mount non UST tyres to boot, that is likely to nag you into buying UST tyres down the road. Lets just say Im not a fan.
05-23-18, 07:37 AM
#18
Senior Member
I don't know. I have been picking up Conti GP4000 IIs in the $30-40 range and they have been lasting me a minimum of 5000 miles unless I simply shred the tire on a road hazard. My Yksions are at 2400 miles now and are deader than I have ever taken a set of GP4000s. So twice as much $ for half the life makes the Yksions 4 times more expensive.
05-23-18, 07:56 AM
#19
Full Member
I'm with you on $75 being too much for a bike tire - particularly when they have reports of mediocre life. I have the Mavic Open pro UST and unless the tubeless tires come down in price (say under $40) I don't feel them worth trying out. I'll stick to clinchers and the cursing every time I have to mount them when I flat - inevitably when it's raining/freezing.
05-23-18, 09:39 AM
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I don't know. I have been picking up Conti GP4000 IIs in the $30-40 range and they have been lasting me a minimum of 5000 miles unless I simply shred the tire on a road hazard. My Yksions are at 2400 miles now and are deader than I have ever taken a set of GP4000s. So twice as much $ for half the life makes the Yksions 4 times more expensive.
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/road-tubeless-tires
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/cont...-clincher-tire
ColoradoCyclist I reference, because they charge "normal" pricing as opposed to 24/7/365 "sales" that many etailers do....and their "sales" are actually exceptional sales. All that being said, I suspect Mavic has a gag on sales pricing on their tires similar to SRAM and Speedplay...but I don't care as I don't buy their tires or wheels anyway. Whereas my Panaracer GravelKing SKs in 43mm are $50USD/tire without sales in brick&mortar retail and even less online.
05-23-18, 10:02 AM
#21
Senior Member
True. I haven't found tubeless road options for much less than the Yksions, but I do care if its regular price or sale. I care about price to me and right now, Yksion's are hard to find on sale so if I compare the price of them at full price since nobody seems to be having a consistent sale on them to another set of tires that are always on sale it's because my wallet will see the difference and that's what matters to me.
05-23-18, 01:32 PM
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I like the UST standard (I think the beads are a bit thicker) but not sure it will stick. It did for a while in the MTB world till Stan's/NoTubes came along and unneeded it. However, the UST beads locked on like nothing else. I'm thinking of selling my Schwalbe Pro Ones that I collected, and get a Mavic setup, unless I find a good deal on ENVEs soon. How are the Mavic tires, when compared to something like the GP4000ii?
05-23-18, 01:51 PM
#23
Senior Member
The Yksions have half the mileage longevity and are a little more puncture prone. The sealant at least makes the puncture part a total non issue though. Otherwise they are very similar in ride quality characteristics.
