Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
Reload this Page >

Bartali Condorino? Please tell me about this!

Notices
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

Bartali Condorino? Please tell me about this!

Old 11-24-19, 02:21 PM
  #1  
The 585
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Bartali Condorino? Please tell me about this!

I moved to Italy recently and desperately needed a bicycle to get around town. Wanted something more on the vintage end and ended up finding this Bartali Condorino. The owner didn't know any English so it was a little difficult to communicate, but it's over 40 years old, from the 1970's. Frame was repainted (and I'm not really a fan of the color) but the components seem to be in really good condition, plus I love the self-powered headlight and taillight.

Please check out the photos I've included and let me know anything you may know about this bicycle. I can provide additional photos if it may help. Thanks in advance!



The 585 is offline  
Old 11-24-19, 05:11 PM
  #2  
TugaDude
Senior Member
 
TugaDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,955
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Gino Bartali was a famous cyclist". Bike appears to be 1960's to me. I love it. The lugs are very cool. Workmanship appears top notch. googled Bartali Condor and got several examples, all with upright bars, interesting. I would give it TLC and invest in a quality repaint. I'd go yellow.
TugaDude is offline  
Old 11-24-19, 07:16 PM
  #3  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,087

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 81 Posts
Bartali is a lot more than just a cyclist...he is righteous among the nations, and you should ride it proudly. I would love to ride a bike of bartaliís brand - the man is the best of us.

This is a man of honor, integrity, sacrifice, and love. Each of us should aspire to his heroism when/if confronted with what he saw.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Likes For KonAaron Snake:
Old 11-25-19, 04:31 PM
  #4  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,545
Mentioned: 244 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 94 Posts
-----

Hello again DLXXXV,

Congratulations on this very nice find.

Of much greater historical interest and quality than the Berga.

It is clearly somewhat earlier than stated by il venditore.

You asked for information regarding the machine -

Looks like 1950's or very early 1960's.

More about dating in regards to its fittings...

---

Frame -

constructed with Agrati "BRIANZA" pattern lugset nr. 000.8030/U

upper head lug is item nr. 000.8034

lower head lug is item nr. 000.8033

Malaguti style seat lug is item nr. 022.8039

fork crown is item nr. 000.8038

bottom bracket shell not shown well enough in images to identify;
would expect "BRIANZA" pattern with multiple cutouts

fork ends Agrati item nr. 000.8010

dropouts Agrati item nr. 000.8002

pump peg Agrati

chainstay stop Campag nr. 621

---

Fittings -

chainset with name of cycle marked could be from Agrati, Magistroni or Way-Assauto. leaning toward a Way-Assauto ID based on flute shape. contour of spindle end resembles that of Magistroni. the centre section of the bottom bracket spindle will likely be marked with the maker's name. Agrati produced a chainwheel of this exact pattern, although it is not unique to them. the five bolts which affix the chainwheel to the flange on the right arm thread in from the back and will have square heads.

headset: the OFMEGA locknut is a replacement. note condition of plating and lack of corrosion/scratches. compare it to the condition of the chrome plating on the cycle's stem/bar set. it may be that full headset is a replacement. original may have been a Magistroni with the name of the cycle marked. earliest OFMEGA marked cycle fittings begin ~1966 and cycle earlier than this.

saddle pillar appears it may be an early NITOR design.

forged seat binder collar appears a Magistroni product. does it exhibit the name of the bicycle?

chainguard looks to be a Mazzuchelli product. "blister" for clearance of a front mech an interesting feature.

pedals appear to be replacements. you may be able to read a name or symbol on their endcaps. would expect either WECO or Union. they are perfectly appropriate and plausible for the bike. originals may have been Agrati or Way-Assauto and may have been made with white rubbers.

Universal alloy sidepull brakes by Fratelli Pietra. name marked on inner face of levers a very nice feature.

welded condorino style stem & bar set may be from Varese, or possibly Schierano.

handgrips are REG (Rampinelli) Nr. 348.

the machine's Campag Sport model Nr. 1013/1 rear mech launched 1952. VB gives a production life for the Sport model mech of 1952-1957.

the FB - Campagnolo hubs are a helpful dating aid. 1950's current. you should find a specific date for them marked on the inner face of the axle locknuts.
the cycle's hubs and rear mech are two pieces which really bracket it to the 1950's time.

wheel rims, from what can be seen, appear they may be Maccari. before riding machine you will want to demount rear tyre so you can realign the valve stem.

spokes are Stella brand (Italy).

wondering if dynamo lighting system might be Aprilia; no hard information, not making an assertion.
one model of Aprilia dynamo of 1950's era shown here -
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Dinamo-dynam...IAAOSwTKJZejDW

a plausible frame pump for the cycle would be a Silca metal bodied one with a cast metal Silca head.
---

serial -

it appears previous owner brush painted frame directly over original finish. there is quite a bit of paint on there. may take some exploration to locate serial. possible that, if found, it may provide a dating clue...

---

replacement head emblem available here -

https://www.ebay.it/itm/stemma-fregi...wAAOSwZs1df7UN

replacement transfer sets available here -

https://www.ebay.it/itm/01006-Bartal...8AAOSwA29Y5WbS

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Gino-Bartali...QAAOSw4GVYLjSk

---

hope this has helped a bit. all best wishes with the machine!

-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-25-19 at 11:42 PM. Reason: addition
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 11-26-19, 07:16 AM
  #5  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18,521
Mentioned: 483 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2746 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 232 Times in 203 Posts
I'd date this mid-1950s, assuming the components are OEM. As noted, the Sport rear derailleur first appeared in late 1952 for the 1953 model year. The brake calipers appear to the Universal 39, which were reportedly last marketed in 1955. Personally, I was leaning towards Magistroni of the crankset. I also thought that the hubs appeared to be the matching Campagnolo Sport hubs.

While not proprietary, that lugset had perhaps it's widest use by Torresini, who were best known for their Torpado brand. The two names that are routinely associated with 1950s Bartali bicycles are Santamaria and Fratelli Margherita.

This is a nice sample of a classic Condorino style bicycle, outside of the repaint. However, it's not what I'd want for a rider, if that is the OP's inclination. Those single pulley Sport derailleurs have a very limited range and the pivots wear quickly, leading to very poor shifting. For me, the Sport was a classic example of Campagnolo having taken one step backwards, after having taken two steps forward with the Gran Sport.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-27-19, 03:06 PM
  #6  
The 585
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Huge help, thanks for all the info guys! Great to hear some more background about the components and that it's even older than I had originally thought. I'm definitely interested in getting the frame repainted and replacing the head emblem and decals -- thanks for finding that info juvela!
The 585 is offline  
Old 11-27-19, 03:12 PM
  #7  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,110

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 135 Posts
Much, much nicer than your previous finds! Love the name, love the details. If this came up for sale here in my size, I'd have no hesitation.
__________________
Roy knows: you need sugar.
non-fixie is offline  
Old 11-27-19, 03:50 PM
  #8  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,545
Mentioned: 244 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Much, much nicer than your previous finds! Love the name, love the details. If this came up for sale here in my size, I'd have no hesitation.

-----

And Heaven knows, non-fixie's N is simply far too small!

Saw a recent image of his living room and it looked like there were only six or so machines present. Hath this forum no standards for membership?!?!

All best to los tres amigos.

-----
juvela is offline  
Old 11-27-19, 04:11 PM
  #9  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,110

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 135 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----
Saw a recent image of his living room and it looked like there were only six or so machines present. Hath this forum no standards for membership?!?!
-----
That was just the camera angle.
__________________
Roy knows: you need sugar.
non-fixie is offline  
Old 11-28-19, 08:08 AM
  #10  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 18,521
Mentioned: 483 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2746 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 232 Times in 203 Posts
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
....Saw a recent image of his living room and it looked like there were only six or so machines present. Hath this forum no standards for membership?!?! ....
If that was a legitimate requirement, I'd have been booted off the forum long ago.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 11-29-19, 02:21 PM
  #11  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 8,545
Mentioned: 244 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1768 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 94 Posts
-----

Vintage Gino items here for those who may be interested -

paramanubrio: Bartali

http://www.ciclomuseo-bartali.it


http://chiantiginobartali.it/

-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-29-19 at 05:19 PM. Reason: addition
juvela is offline  
Old 11-30-19, 11:18 AM
  #12  
The 585
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks again guys. Finding this bike has inspired me to learn the history of Gino Bartali -- truly an impressive man. I will enjoy riding this condorino around the streets of Italy for the next couple years... And can't wait to ship it back to the good ole USA for a long life after that!
The 585 is offline  
Old 11-30-19, 03:01 PM
  #13  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,587
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 88 Times in 71 Posts
Good purchase- I really don't like the color, but it will probably fly under the radar.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-30-19, 03:12 PM
  #14  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,110

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 135 Posts
Congratulations! Well done.
__________________
Roy knows: you need sugar.
non-fixie is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 01:08 PM
  #15  
The 585
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The bicycle is mechanically in great condition and rides well. However, the bad paint job is getting to me. Especially how even the lugs have been painted over. How much do you guys think a repaint would cost... or would there be a simple way to DIY the paint job?
The 585 is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 06:23 PM
  #16  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,110

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 135 Posts
Instead of a new paint job you could try to clean up the existing paint. Remove the paint from the lugs (if there's chrome beneath), ad lug lining (gold paint pens work well), see if you can find a head badge and perhaps some decals, polish the rest of the paint for a bit of shine. But keep the 40+ year old, slightly distressed look.

Something like this:

__________________
Roy knows: you need sugar.
non-fixie is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 08:39 PM
  #17  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,156

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 730 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 93 Posts
Originally Posted by The 585 View Post
The bicycle is mechanically in great condition and rides well. However, the bad paint job is getting to me. Especially how even the lugs have been painted over. How much do you guys think a repaint would cost... or would there be a simple way to DIY the paint job?
A high quality wet paint job could cost $500 to $750 and have a good chance of lowering the bike's value. Rattlecan paint tends to have durability issues, it takes a lot of work in preparation to do it right, and will likely lower the value as well.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 12-02-19, 02:32 PM
  #18  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,110

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 197 Times in 135 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
A high quality wet paint job could cost $500 to $750 and have a good chance of lowering the bike's value. Rattlecan paint tends to have durability issues, it takes a lot of work in preparation to do it right, and will likely lower the value as well.
Good points. If you are going to do a repaint, there's no way around the prep work. Get the old paint off, and make sure you've got a smooth and clean surface to start with.

I've done the rattlecan when I wanted a metallic paint finish, with reasonable success, but I have actually had more pleasing results with a brush. Much easier to work with, more paint on the bike itself, and better results: thicker paint, a deeper shine, and altogether a more convincing vintage look.

FWIW and YMMV.
__________________
Roy knows: you need sugar.
non-fixie is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.