Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Hard time holding back

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Hard time holding back

Old 01-03-20, 08:31 AM
  #26  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,493

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 675 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 244 Posts
Some older riders can kick it! No need for them to leave the faster group due to age. We have a college freshman all the way up to a 65 y/o guy on our A/A+ rides.

Group up by ability, not age or gender or other arbitrary measures.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 08:40 AM
  #27  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,237
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times in 251 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
This.

People who can't do 15 mph on a bike don't like to ride very long. You can go on a short scenic ride with them, and then go get your workout on afterwards.
There's some folks in our cycling club that don't break a 15mph average that can ride until I say "uncle" despite me being able to go faster. I get your meaning though, they're probably not the norm.
nomadmax is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 08:47 AM
  #28  
Dan333SP
Serious Cyclist
 
Dan333SP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: RVA
Posts: 9,185

Bikes: 2013 Madone 3.1

Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5598 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Our group rides are pretty well labeled. So if our Wednesday ride is a recovery and goes 17-19mph (flat area), and Iím in the mood for a harder workout Iíll just pull longer than my fair share or pace the group. Or ride on my own.

we recently started an amazing z2 ride, of course thatís different for everyone but basically 55 miles 19-22moh average and we get a huge group every Saturday of over 40ppl easily depending on time of year. Sometimes folks will split up and go off the front we let them go stretch the group and the legs for a bit. If they try to push the group beyond the intent of the ride we politely suggest the local A or B ride which are a different work out!

Then I have a smaller group of folks that I ride with regularly. When I choose to ride with them I know exactly what Iím in for a nice pleasant 14-18mph average for about 30 miles chatting all the while and coffee afterwards, Iíll pull a bit longer than some but always stay together since thatís what we bought into and as a smaller group would suck for the less strong people to leave them in the middle of the ride.

thankfully lots of options where I am!
Was in Palm Springs about a year and a half ago with a rental bike, I wanted to join a few of those group rides but the timing didn't work out. Would love to tag along if we return in the next year or two, since we loved our trip there.
Dan333SP is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 09:02 AM
  #29  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 1,451

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 260 Times in 176 Posts
This is not directed at anyone, but nothing chaps my azz more than someone blowing up a group ride that is supposed to be at an advertised pace. If I choose to ride with a slower group it is because I am planning for a Z1 or Z2. Hard rides are done solo or on group rides advertised as drop rides, not at the expense of other people who came out to ride at an advertised pace. When the shoe get's put on the other foot, the person who was blowing up a ride is the first person to tell you to slow it down when they can't hang anymore.
jadocs is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 09:48 AM
  #30  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,775

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2629 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
This is not directed at anyone, but nothing chaps my azz more than someone blowing up a group ride that is supposed to be at an advertised pace. If I choose to ride with a slower group it is because I am planning for a Z1 or Z2. Hard rides are done solo or on group rides advertised as drop rides, not at the expense of other people who came out to ride at an advertised pace. When the shoe get's put on the other foot, the person who was blowing up a ride is the first person to tell you to slow it down when they can't hang anymore.
A good ride leader should encourage those folks to ride ahead and not chase them.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Likes For ThermionicScott:
Old 01-03-20, 09:49 AM
  #31  
Baboo 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 273

Bikes: Bike Friday NWT, Rans Stratus, Cannondale R500, trek 720 multitrack, Rockhopper

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked 35 Times in 21 Posts
This is a problem that seems to come up pretty often on BF. If you are unable to slow down to ride a social ride with your friends, at their pace, you might have a real hard think about why.
just sayiní
Baboo is offline  
Likes For Baboo:
Old 01-03-20, 09:57 AM
  #32  
robbyville
Senior Member
 
robbyville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Palm Desert, CA
Posts: 2,206

Bikes: Speedvagen Steel

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan333SP View Post
Was in Palm Springs about a year and a half ago with a rental bike, I wanted to join a few of those group rides but the timing didn't work out. Would love to tag along if we return in the next year or two, since we loved our trip there.
Absolutely, that would be great! We always welcome guests and also inquire as to who is knew prior to every ride. One of the reasons we actually chose this area when moving from Virginia, was because of the cycling infrastructure and club. Incredibly welcoming group, many of whom I met while on vacation the year before Our move.
robbyville is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 10:08 AM
  #33  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 1,451

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Liked 260 Times in 176 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
A good ride leader should encourage those folks to ride ahead and not chase them.
Not about ride leader chasing a single person, it's about group mentality and it's effect on a once cohesive group that gets blown apart.
jadocs is offline  
Likes For jadocs:
Old 01-03-20, 11:00 AM
  #34  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,775

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2629 Post(s)
Liked 507 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Not about ride leader chasing a single person, it's about group mentality and it's effect on a once cohesive group that gets blown apart.
Still sounds like a communication/coordination issue to me. If the ride is specified with a certain speed, and that is the expectation/desire of most of the group, perhaps the leader should do some yelling.

It's pretty normal for the groups I ride with to fragment along the route and then regroup at the stops, since they're primarily social rides. As long as everyone knows where the next stop is, they're fine with it.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 01-03-20, 01:59 PM
  #35  
CAT7RDR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 412

Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 126 Times in 86 Posts
I admittedly do not like group rides for a few reasons. However, in your case, why not make the slower ride more difficult by riding a heavier and non-aero bike like a mountain bike? You will surely reduce your average speed by 3-4 mph and not have to stress about it. After all its all about watts with your workout.

Another thing to consider is telling the group beforehand that you will hammer up the hills and double back to rejoin them. I have used both of these strategies and they work without issues or feeling like you cheated yourself.
CAT7RDR is online now  
Old 01-03-20, 05:31 PM
  #36  
OldTryGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SW Fl.
Posts: 4,624

Bikes: 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Liked 124 Times in 87 Posts
Around here a Group Ride with a Ride Leader is lead by the Leader for the entire ride and the speed is maintained because that is the Leader's job. If someone shoots off the front anybody can join in but the leader keeps the pace. The A and A-unlimited are understood to be Drop Rides so one must be prepared with a homing device.
OldTryGuy is offline  
Likes For OldTryGuy:
Old 01-06-20, 03:35 PM
  #37  
rickturbo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: California
Posts: 21

Bikes: Several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Differing abilities

In my 40+ years riding, Iíve long realized that some riders just canít control themselves. They have one speed and one speed only (fast). My preference is to ride with folks that have the ability to ride at variable speeds depending on the ride objective. Recovery vs race pace for example. Easier said than done. The bigger the group the harder it is. Let the pissing contest begin!
rickturbo is offline  
Old 01-06-20, 04:20 PM
  #38  
Rstyle
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rickturbo View Post
In my 40+ years riding, Iíve long realized that some riders just canít control themselves. They have one speed and one speed only (fast). My preference is to ride with folks that have the ability to ride at variable speeds depending on the ride objective. Recovery vs race pace for example. Easier said than done. The bigger the group the harder it is. Let the pissing contest begin!
Our club has different rides based on average speed of the rides and they are rated A, B+, B and C. Sometimes all the groups ride the same day and other times the rides are on different days of the week. The C group are mostly nice and older people that do 10mph or less for whatever the pre ride determined distance is but want to be part and participate in social events of the club.
A is the 17Mph group
Rstyle is offline  
Old 01-06-20, 04:44 PM
  #39  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,751

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 84 Posts
The world hates half-wheelers.

You chose to ride this ride. Slow down. If you can't control it then apologize to everyone on the ride and pick a different one.

I despise when people choose to come on slower rides then constantly half-wheel it. It's not that hard to go slower, or to wait. The easy ones are stopping. When you come to a crossroad take the time to fully stop. Then don't accelerate out of it like you're sprinting out of a corner in a crit. I find that is how a lot of riders will gap the ride without intending to.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:
Old 01-06-20, 05:18 PM
  #40  
Cypress
Globo Gym lifetime member
 
Cypress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 4,848

Bikes: Fast ones

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 350 Times in 164 Posts
Is there a problem with a slower ride just letting a faster rider "go"? We've had fully-enclosed velomobiles show up to group road rides. When they decide to put the hammer down and start pulling away, nobody chases, or even really cares.

I've been guilty of burying group rides, but it's usually after somebody else brings the funk and the noise. I've successfully countered attacks, only to be told "this isn't that type of ride" after I end up stopping and waiting, which is super confusing.

I explained "guttering" to a newer (but seriously strong) road rider during a group ride last year. He tried it out when the group was strung out and ramping the pace towards a known sprint/regroup spot. He then got berated for guttering and told the usual "this isn't that type of ride."

It seems like a lot of group rides can only be as fast as the most fragile ego will allow.
Cypress is online now  
Old 01-06-20, 06:20 PM
  #41  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 38,664

Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 315 Posts
Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
Anyone else have difficulty with slowing down the pace for a more casual ride?
Some of my riding partners - like all of us - are getting older, and I have struggled on group rides these past few years to keep from getting out ahead of them... I am BY NO MEANS a racehorse - I average from 16.5 - 17 mph on longer rides in our hilly neck-of-the-woods (my highest average last year was a century in a flatter part of the state - about 18.2 mph average).
Our local club has a NY Day ride, which I have missed the past two or three years, and I met up with some of the guys I've ridden with for years at the start; we stayed together for the first mile, but the rolling-hill nature of the terrain (and a wicked crosswind) ultimately found me dialing up the speed, to maintain momentum, and I didn't see any of them after the first five miles were past. I finished the ride a good 2 mph higher average than the guys I started out with.
I know a longer, slow ride is good for training, but I really struggle to not hammer it out, especially when the hills require a little momentum going down to keep a good pace going up.
I'm not sure there's a question here, but here are some answers off the top of my head:

1) Do your hardest workout the day before and treat this as a recovery ride
1.5) Do intervals on the way to the ride and treat this as your cool down
2) Ride your CX/MTB/FG
3) Go to the front and pull
4) Go to the back and sweep/tow dropped riders back to the group
5) Play domestique: fill your jersey pockets with extra bottles and food for your ride companions
6) Put your computer in your pocket
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 01-06-20, 07:00 PM
  #42  
bikejrff
Senior Member
 
bikejrff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 427

Bikes: Lynskey R260, Salsa Colossal Ti, Litespeed T5, Lynskey Peloton, Bianchi Vigorelli, C'Dale SuperSix, CAAD 10, Giant FastRoad CoMax 1, C-Dale Quick 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by travelerman View Post
Anyone else have difficulty with slowing down the pace for a more casual ride?
Some of my riding partners - like all of us - are getting older, and I have struggled on group rides these past few years to keep from getting out ahead of them... I am BY NO MEANS a racehorse - I average from 16.5 - 17 mph on longer rides in our hilly neck-of-the-woods (my highest average last year was a century in a flatter part of the state - about 18.2 mph average).

I know a longer, slow ride is good for training, but I really struggle to not hammer it out, especially when the hills require a little momentum going down to keep a good pace going up.
I have the same problem and I really want to ride with my group of friends. Our group can number as high as 15, normally 8-12. Seems about half the group is itchy to pretend we can still be fast and will jump out for a few miles. We always establish a meeting point and then regroup. And no, I am not going to find new "friends." I have other groups of "acquaintances" I can cycle with, these guys are my friends.
bikejrff is offline  
Old 01-06-20, 07:07 PM
  #43  
bikejrff
Senior Member
 
bikejrff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 427

Bikes: Lynskey R260, Salsa Colossal Ti, Litespeed T5, Lynskey Peloton, Bianchi Vigorelli, C'Dale SuperSix, CAAD 10, Giant FastRoad CoMax 1, C-Dale Quick 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Then don't accelerate out of it like you're sprinting out of a corner in a crit. I find that is how a lot of riders will gap the ride without intending to.
This drives me NUTS! After suffering major leg injury five years ago I have no torque, especially from a standing or slow rolling stop. I stopped riding with the A & B groups of local cycling club because I got tired of always being gapped at EVERY freakin' stop sign.
bikejrff is offline  
Old 01-07-20, 04:11 AM
  #44  
travelerman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
travelerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 9 Posts
The irony here is that one of the weekly group rides with a smaller group with whom I am involved virtually disappeared a couple of years ago, because a couple of riders were blowing out ahead every night at a 20mph average, while a few of us were soldiering on at a 17-18mph pace (I among them), and the ride leader was recovering from health issues while also trying to stay with some newbies at an under-15mph pace... they would invariably cut the ride short every night, for fear of arriving back after dark.
Eventually, the slower riders stopped showing up completely (including the Captain), while I became the only moderately-paced rider, trying to keep of with the speed-demons, and I dropped the ride, as well. I would have kept with the ride, it being the first weekly group ride I attended faithfully after getting back into cycling, but it just sucks to be the only guy riding at a certain pace, blowing up trying to keep up with two or three others.
travelerman is offline  
Old 01-07-20, 11:49 AM
  #45  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,751

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 715 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 84 Posts
It's all about expectations on the ride. If it is a drop ride then of course no one cares and it's everyone for themselves. When it's no-drop... Then don't crap on the etiquette. Everyone agreed to it beforehand.

The issue isn't 1 or 2 people deciding o ride faster. The issue is usually you have a good group going that people really like to ride with then someone shows up and encourages everyone to ride faster than usual. Sounds like fun at first but then the group breaks up, someone at the back gets pissed because now they're alone on streets they don't like to even ride on let alone ride on them alone. The ride comes in 1-2 riders at a time as it's just been shredded apart. A handful may now like that but it's killed the group feel for the majority of the people who ride it normally as their ride. It's how rides die over time. If you're always going to be riding alone after getting your teeth kicked in and you know it's not going to change anytime soon a lot of people will opt to leave (note - this is also what sucks about entry level racing).

So, yeah - you know the setting for the ride before it starts. Stick to it or find/start a different ride.

Anecdote - I ALWAYS saw myself as the one who is disappointed that the ride isn't what was "advertised". Nothing more depressing than thinking you get to push yourself for 2 hours with friends only to find that one person decides to play rabbit...no one can turn that down. It got to the point where I just ride alone or simply state from the start, "I'll ride sweep". The only other way I ride with my friends/team is if they call it out as a "recovery" day. "You're not supposed to be riding any faster than me remember...it's recovery day."

This year I rode a lot more than in previous years. More than once i would be leading out a ride (everyone says they want to go slow so we go at my pace until x miles in kind of thing) and eventually someone would come up and go, "Hey - you said we were taking it easy today." or some such.

Drove it home when Leah - who I work with (Cat 2 women's racer) and never ride with as she never knows how to shut it off - stopped asking if I wanted to spin with her on rest days. "Why not?" "You go too f'n hard. Last time I was riding mid to high tempo the whole time." "Good...I was riding nearly all out. Your rest days are usually still too fast for me." "Not anymore apparently."

Anymore we just ride. Everyone I ride with knows I suck. When I'm getting pushed too hard and others are just rolling and talking I just usually say, "I can't keep this up for 2 hours today guys. That's fine though. I know the route. Feel free to keep it rolling without me. If you want to ride with me though I am going to need to dial it back." Their choice.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Likes For Psimet2001:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.