dz_nuzz

I didn't realize that cloth numbers were such a nuisance for promoters. I don't feel that they are necessary, even for a stage race. But what it felt like to me was this whole 'nickle and dime'd' experience at all of this promoter's races. The numbers just felt like icing on the cake, expensive registration, no ability to transfer to ANYONE (really?), poorly done TT times, and absolutely laughable prize money just felt like a series of financial cut corners that everyone at the race noticed and felt. But really I am not super attached to them (aside from the pins), just that perceived cut corner.

I like to think that if a race promoter atleast extends some sort of olive branch out to the racers. Be that GMSR and KSR offering reimbursement if you cancel early, or rider transfers between team members, or weekly series like Bethel and Wells Ave being super cheap and weekly series (IMO anyone who runs a weekly series is going above and beyond), or even Tokeneke offering marshals 50% off of race registration. Any of those things show that the promoter cares about the racing community and they deserve our support.

But if you nickle and dime every which way, yeah, sorry I won't cut a promoter any slack

island rider

Any chance of elaborating? Just curiosity on my part.

Grumpy McTrumpy

All your points are logical and well made.

However, the fact is that promoters are leaving the sport and people are not stepping up to replace them. It has gotten quite difficult to put a race on with all of the cost increases from the federation, insurance, State agencies, difficult local municipalities, police etc. I've been observing the trend over the past 8 years and seen a general decline in interest. I have also participated in enough events on the side of the promoter that I know what they have to deal with first hand. I also know some of the numbers regarding profit and loss for some events.

I think it is every person's right to decide where they spend their money and to lodge complaints against people who have provided them a service. I also believe every person (who provides a service) has the right to decide that they have had enough, and it's not worth it to them any more. That is the decision that promoters have been making all throughout the state of NY (not just the promoter of ToC).

Part of this is that, when faced with a no-win scenario, all you get are complaints, there is only one logical course of action: Cut your losses and get out while you still have your health and sanity.

Cost-cutting measures suck, indeed. The thing is, those must have been made as a result of simply not having any actual revenue with which to pay for premium stuff. It really has changed in the past few years, and the cost of putting on a race has skyrocketed. Crits on closed courses in a corporate park might be the exception, but we are talking about road races involving public roads, several counties, many towns, different police departments, more expensive fees, etc.

So it comes down to a choice. I choose not to pay if the cost is too high, but I also choose to have understanding regarding the realities of what the promoters are facing in this day and age.

It's not the Tour de France. It's amateur. We are supposed to be doing this for fun. If results matter so much that it obscures that sense of fun, then it seems likely that it wasn't actually about fun to begin with.

wens

I dislike promoters complaining about people not pre registering, but also having no refund/transfer policies.

gsteinb

I don't recall specifically but it was something like an altercation between a racer and guys on the course, and some woman walking onto the course and causing a big crash.

echappist

even worse are the promoters who prompt to chastise you for holding up posting of results while you register the day of by saying you could have saved $10 and made registration a bit easier. You subsequently have to remind her that given you were almost taken out during the race the previous day, you were right in your judgment not to pre-reg as you could have spent $40 for nothing

echappist

have fun. line up early to the crit as it's technical and the back of the pack will get shredded

wish i could be there, but my TT bike is out of action, which makes $300 just for a really fun crit awfully hard to justify...

mike868y

millersburg crit is fun. i made it about five laps (in which I went from last wheel to top 10) before getting crashed out, ruining my jawbones, and taking a trip to the hospital :/

that was a fun summer of bike racing, but I was so damn burnt out when i lined up for that race.

WRT a certain stage race in NY promoted by a certain promoter - i knew what I was getting into. I did it because it's a very unique race and i'm willing to pay a premium for a 75+ mile cat 3 road race.

echappist

@mike868y, that's a pretty impressive effort. I know how hard it is to start from the back and try to move up in a hard crit

@Wesley36, seems like i'll be able to make it after all. I'll be on a white scott foil with pink bar tapes, and i ride for c3 twenty20

mike868y

whoa, since when do you ride for twenty20? the baltimore shop was my go to while at hopkins.

EastCoastDHer

FML how did I miss this?!

....oooh....I was busy snuggling chickens. :/

And hunter, wtf, I'm due for some Catskill time. Of course I missed Mountain Jam this year along with too much work to ride at patty :/

A boy can dream....

echappist

just this year. 2nd year of the road team, though their CX team is better known. A friend (also Columbia alumnus) joined this year, and i went along as it's a small team

mike868y

pretty sure guys have been racing road for them for a lot longer than two years.

carpediemracing 

Thanks. Thinking of things. Problem with NB is the expense. Bethel is traffic.

carpediemracing 

Me too. A co-promoter (Bethel SPring Series) emailed a different promoter asking to transfer his entry because the co-promoter had a 104 deg fever and it didn't seem like a good idea to race the next day. No refund, no transfer. Stuff like that seems silly to me. Promoters, for the most part, reap what they sow, and that's me speaking as a promoter.

The profit thing is a different question, one that I don't answer well.

carpediemracing 

dupe

wens

Yeah, I realize that promoters have a decent amount of upfront cash outlay, and pre reg helps distribute that risk, but if you look at a whole season or even month of racing, I can have a few hundred in entry fees in a busy month, so I don't want to take on that risk without some benefit to me.

It seems like offering a five buck discount for pre reg after fees, and offering to refund everything but the fees up to five days before the race no questions asked would be a solid compromise. In that case even if you lose six weeks of racing times three races per week average, which seems pretty worst case, you'd only lose like fifty bucks, so the payback is only a season or so on five dollar discounts. I'm sure some guys would still hold off to check the weather or whatever, but I wouldn't mind registering a couple weeks early in that case. Especially since credit card billing cycle mean a fair chunk of the time I'd actually pay at the same time while giving the promoter money ahead of time.

gsteinb

In the old days we mailed checks in from ads in the back of velonews. I think promoters across the board should do away with day of, and close reg at some agreed upon interval prior to the race -- if they're really serious about changing the present last minute culture. There's really no advantage to a racer to register weeks in advance the way things stand.

Wesley36

Cool, I am in black and red Cyclelogik kit, cat 4/5.
Stunk up the TT - 30/33, tho I did it Merckx. Or Semi-merckx (deep-ish wheels). Let's call it motivation for getting on the rollers in the dead of winter.

Homebrew01

If you're outside the top 10, does it matter ?

TheKillerPenguin

No doubt

TheKillerPenguin

Anyone else thinking of the Rochester Twilight Crit? I've never done it but it seems like it could be a lot of fun.

shovelhd

If I was healthy I was planning on it. Love those races.

I am working both Masters fields tomorrow at Tokeneke. The M50+ is the largest field (70+) but fortunately I will have a Moto. Please say hi.

Wesley36

Died in the crit - first crit I have done with a real hill. I was with the lead group for the first few laps, pulled out and could not stop coughing and hacking for about 15 min. I am hoping it was just exercise induced asthma, looking for redemption in the road race tomorrow.
While I was probably just plain out-gunned, I probably need to start doing two a day interval sessions for future stage races. Really not used to racing twice in a day.
Some days/ fields I feel strong and capable, other days I just get owned.
Still tho, fun stuff.

Wesley36

Lanterne rouge!