nun

People successfully tour with 80lbs of gear, but I would not like to do that as I can get the same level of functionality and off bike comfort with 20lbs, so I would not want to carry more. If people are happy to carry more, it's their tour and their legs, I just don't see the need.

Happy Feet

It's goofy the way the argument goes from taking what one wants to be happy to packing 60 extra pounds of gear. Thanks Squeezebox for the logical transition...

Another way to think about UL is to ask the question: Would you be able to tour in relative comfort packing 20-30 lb's of gear on a tour? I'll call this lightweight but not UL.
If the answer is yes then going UL is a want, not a need.

If the answer is no, is it because of the difficulty of the route or poor conditioning?
If the answer is the former it is a need. If it is the latter it may also be a need but could be addressed in a different way perhaps.

If you are riding a high performance, light bike with an advanced gear set and yet find it uncomfortable to carry 20-30 lb's on a normal road tour I might have some questions. If you say you like being completely unencumbered I can understand that, or if you are trying to make big distances fast, but I find it hard to fathom the push for simple A-B la la la touring. The opposite, but equal extreme would be someone who buys a Hummer to drive in commuter traffic because they like to feel safe. People do it, but I don't get it.

bmike

I wonder how many Hummer and minivan and SUV drivers troll through Smart Car and Prius and Subcompact car forums to argue with commuters who drive smaller, lighter, more efficient cars...

imi

Nun: Would you agree that there are tours that require 80 lbs of ULTRALIGHT gear (obviously pretty extreme geography and/or climate)?
If so, would you (hypothetically) not do that tour as you are uninterested in that type of geography and/or climate, or because you don't enjoy hauling 80 lbs of gear for whatever reason?
Or a combination of both of course.

This is an honest question, as I am simply curious. Thanks!
You other guys are free to answer too!

Happy Feet

True, but this is a touring forum, not an UL or bikepacking forum.

nun

Someone asked about a lightweight gear list. There have been lots of links to lists in this discussion, but for ease here is what I took on the Northern Tier

Item: oz
Bike, Cervelo RS: 304
Carradice Camper Longflap: 31
Ortlieb Classic Large: 20
Tarpent Contrail: 28
Montbell UL Super Spiral Down Hugger 30F sleeping bag: 25
2x Compression Sack: 0 (include in other weights)
Thermarest NeoAir, Regular: 14
Exped Air Pillow: 3.5
Evernew Titanium Alcohol Stove:1
Evernew Titanium Mug: 2.5
Windscreen: 0.5
Bic lighter: 0.5
Sea to Summit X-mug: 1.5
REI LightLoads mini towel: 0.25
2 x Water Bottles Maxi Cincio one liter capacity: 7
Groundeffect Rock Lobster jersey with long sleeves and a zip: 7
Ex-Officio Convertible Long Pants*Lightweight trousers with zip off: 10
Rapha Merino Padded Boxers: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
REI rain pants: 8
Smartwool balaclava: 2
Rain Jacket: Marmot Mica: 8
Marmot Catalyst jacket: 11
KungFu Shoes: 11
Sea to Summit Ultra-sil Day Pack: 2
Cord:Basic Utility cord: 2.5
Snow Peak Titanium Spork: 0.5
Antigravitygear 8 fl oz fluid bottle: 1
Tools:Topeak Alien II: 10
Parts/Spares: Brake and gear cables, AAA batteries, duct tape, cable ties, Fiber Flex spoke, patch kit, 4mm SHC screws, chain link: 6
Tubes:Continental Race 28, 25mm inner tubes: 6
Multitool:Leatherman Juice: 5
Umbrella: 6
Wash Kit: Toothpaste and brush, comb, shampoo, DEET, sun screen. lip balm, razor,medium REI camp towel: 9
Sunglasses: Julbo race:1
First Aid Kit: 3
Castelli Pioggia over shoes: 4
iPhone4: 6
Anker external battery: 8
Sony Walkman Radio SRF M37W: 4
Cables and earphones: iPhone AC adapter, iPhone charging cable, Hyperjuice USB charging cable: 5
Petzl headlamp: 3
Wallet: 4
Lenzyne Pump: 3
Lock:Kryptonite Kryptoflex 815: 10
Man***** Windstopper gloves: 2
Total Weight: 601 oz (37.5 lbs)


Items worn and consumables
Cap:2
Bandana:1
EMS Techwick Midweight T with long sleeves and half zip: 11
EMS Touring Shorts:6
Rapha padded underwear: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
Shimano M076 shoes: 22
Food and Water: Raman, couscous, stock cubes, candy bars, dehydrated veggies: 100
Denatured alcohol: 7

Here is the bike and gear just outside of Galata, MT



and just the bags packed with everything on the list

nun

I'm sure you can come up with a tour that would require 80lbs of gear....case in point going up Everest, but you don't need 80lbs of gear to ride around the world either.

djb

Nun--great, now I have to convert everything to grams! ;-)

partly in jest, but I really can't relate to ounces. Here in Canada we tend to be pretty ambidextrous for mph and kph, feet, yards and metres, but I still have to think twice to do F to C, and the whole oz to gram thing just doesnt work for me.
I guess its because I never have to convert it. You will laugh, but in fact, off the top of my head, I cant even remember how many ounces there are to a pound, 12, 14, 16? Of course, I can look it up, but just shows how I look at your list and kinda draw a blank.

Imperialism aside, thanks for putting up your list. I've seen it before but its always interesting to see pack lists.

elcruxio

Soooo.... If a tent is a smarter choice (because of bugs etc), am I still an UL'er? Or if I feel that having a proper field kitchen, that allows for cooking a huge variety of stuff efficiently and fuel economically, instead of a pop can stove and a 700ml pot that is viable for proper cooking only theoretically?

imi

djb: grams are kind of like ultralight ounces!

bmike

In order to earn your UL merit badge you must sleep on bubble wrap under a garbage bag that doubles as your saddle bag.
You may only wear 1 pair of cycling shorts, even in winter, for the duration of the trip. You are also limited to 1 jersey, even in winter.
Rain gear may be used. It is recommended (hint hint) that you use only a garbage bag found on the route. You may chew holes in it for your arms and head.
(chewing is OK for this as you aren't UL if you carry a small knife)
Soap is not allowed. The smell that you build up over time is a signal to other UL merit badge holders that you are serious.
Camp kitchen may only be comprised of a Ti toothpick, no sporks or other utensils allowed.
Heat for a fire may only come from burning Everclear in a Ti dixie cup.
Starting the stove many only be done by rubbing found twigs together to generate heat and a flame.




Until the UL Advisory Board approves your application, you may only display the following merit badge on your kit:

Buffalo Buff

Why is that the conclusion you draw? I carry less weight because I enjoy how a light bike rides and handles. Its not lack of conditioning. I did ten centuries back to back on one of my last tours, I'm in the 1,000lb club in weightlifting etc.

nun

Sorry for the US centric use of oz. My bike weighs about 8.5kg and my gear weighs the same. So the bike and gear together weigh 17kgs

nun

I do lightweight touring because I'm a middle aged overweight guy and I want to make thing as easy as possible. I'm not the fittest of riders so less weight makes mountain climbing and centuries easier.

Buffalo Buff

They make UL tents

hueyhoolihan

ahhhhh.... at last! given an opportunity to boast on the internet.

elcruxio

which are also expensive if they also have any rating for waterproofness. It's like any other thing, money takes away grams.

andrewclaus

Good reason--and what about those with infirmities or injuries who simply can't make the slightest hill with a heavy load? Say I have a marginal, non-crippling knee injury. I enjoy pain-free cycling unladen. I would like to tour, but a "traditional" load of 50 pounds of gear would be torture if not impossible. I find out I can tour in comfort and good style with 15 pounds of gear. And then people call me "unpopular?"

nun

Spending $220 on something like a Tarptent Protrail does not seem that expensive.

Leebo

In most of the USA, camping means a campfire in a designated fire pit. Great for cooking, s,mores and getting rid of bugs. In Summer, some areas do not allow fires because of forest fire issues. In the Northeast, we get lots of rain so it usually is not an issue.

imi

I understood the thread title to mean unpopular as in a small fraction, not as disliked...

That is, not that those who choose to tour UL are disliked by others!

nun

Many campsites don't allow you to pick up wood to make a fire, they insist that you bring your own or buy it from the camp store.

Leebo

Plenty of places in New England you can just pick it up, just no cutting of live trees.

nun

That's true, but out West there's often a ban on collecting any wood, even dead stuff of the ground.

elcruxio

No, it does not. It's made of silnylon though. I can't find their waterproof ratings but silnylon generally has a max hydrostatic head of 1500mm whereas PU coated stuff can get to 5000-10000mm. Pu coated is heavier though. I personally wouldn't use anything under 3000mm since with any less it can become difficult to keep the water out, especially in heavy rain or perpetual wetness.