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Gineyea FD Adapter f/Folders

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Gineyea FD Adapter f/Folders

Old 07-26-20, 12:38 PM
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Gineyea FD Adapter f/Folders

Folders often have a limited number of gears and commonly come with no front derailleurs. Yet if you take them around places, sooner or later you are likely to run into hills, even when there are no hills in your immediate vicinity. With this there is an interest in expanding the gear range by using a crankset with 2 or 3 chainrings and mounting a front derailleur. Because of the folding requirements, it is common for folders to have unusual geometry, with the seat getting thick and running along a line that does not point towards the center of the bottom bracket. This leads to challenges in derailleur mounting and some market for specialized derailleur mount adapters, albeit with limits. Since the geometric features tend to be unique for a particular bike, even within the same brand, and the fraction of customers with interest in the derailleur hassle is low, it is unlikely to be much profitable market. The choice of adapter mounts for folders remains limited.

Against the above backdrop comes the new mount Gineyea K51AS. It is unique in the fact that the angle for the derailleur can be adjusted as well as fore and aft position. The mount is sturdy and consists of an arm attached to a rail that slides along the clamp. Three bolts secure the angle of the arm and one bolt position of the rail along the clamp. The rail has a hole that acts as shift cable stop. The arm is long and runs around so that the derailleur hardware can come close to the seat tube. The clamp is meant for 40mm seat tubes and can be flipped to increase fore-aft range.

When I tried to use the Gineyea, I found that adjusting the angle by rotating the long arm shifted the mounting point for the derailleur so much that I needed to correct that shift by moving the rail. This limited the adjustment range so much that I ran out of it for my Brompton. I could only use that adapter by combining it with one or two Sram asymmetric washers, largely nullifying the advantage of Gineyea. In addition the clamp below the derailleur mounting point still interfered with the derailleur hardware, though less than for other adapters with the clamp below the mounting point.

Your bike geometry may mesh better with Gineyea. Myself I am going to my previous setup that I originally hoped to simplify with Gineyea. The photos follow.



Hole at the bottom of the rail on the right is for threading the shift cable through.


The angle is firmly locked with 3 bolts. The 4th bolt locks rail position.



Changing the angle shifts the mounting point substantially back. Brompton requires a more forward position than Gineyea allows for in combination with the desired angle.


The derailleur can come close to the tube.
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Old 07-26-20, 03:19 PM
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where is the shift cable housing stop ?
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Old 07-26-20, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
where is the shift cable housing stop ?
It is the hole going through the rail, right under the mounting point on the arm. The two sides of the hole are visible in the first two photos. The hole diameter just accommodates the cable. There is no cavity there to accommodate cable housing.
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Old 07-27-20, 12:06 PM
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Nice writeup. Thanks for taking the time to give us the low down on this thing.

When I was researching FD adapters I specifically did not buy one of these because none of the available pics showed a hole for the cable. Like this one, for example:




Good to know there actually is one. However, the fact that the bottom of the hole can't accomodate the housing is disappoining. In your pics it looks like the bottom of the cable hole is larger than the top, is this actually the case?




Do you think the bottom of the hole could be drilled out to make it 4mm?

Also, I don't recall seeing the small set screw in any of the MFR's pics. It looks like that would be beneficial.

Finally, would you be able to measure the distance between the center of the FD mounting hole and the outer edge of the seat tube? The challenge for me has always been getting the FD closer to the seat tube.

Again, nice writeup. Thanks for the effort.

Last edited by Hinge; 07-27-20 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 07-27-20, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hinge View Post
Good to know there actually is one. However, the fact that the bottom of the hole can't accomodate the housing is disappoining. In your pics it looks like the bottom of the cable hole is larger than the top, is this actually the case?
It is larger, but that larger diameter extends over a shallow depth, just under 2mm, see the photo.





Originally Posted by Hinge View Post
Do you think the bottom of the hole could be drilled out to make it 4 or 5mm?
However, as you correctly point out, it could be drilled deeper and to whichever diameter you want. Still another problem with that stop hole is that it dives into the clamp if you try to push the derailleur forward as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Hinge View Post
Also, I don't recall seeing the small set screw in any of the MFR's pics. It looks like that would be beneficial.

Finally, would you be able to measure the distance between the center of the FD mounting hole and the outer edge of the seat tube? The challenge for me has always been getting the FD closer to the seat tube.
The small screw seems indeed a neat solution. For the the transverse distance between the center of mounting hole and the edge of the seat tube I get 8mm. The tube represents Brompton, though, and there is a shim there for which you can take off 0.5mm.

Last edited by 2_i; 07-27-20 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 07-27-20, 09:09 PM
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Thanks for the new pic. It looks like it's almost there, I wonder why they didn't make the hole a little deeper. Is it 4mm in diameter?

Also, thanks for measuring the mounting hole distance. 7.5mm is a little closer than the Litepro K series as far as I can tell.

Maybe I should try one of these. Thanks again for the info
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Old 07-27-20, 09:34 PM
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This shallow hole is 5mm in diameter. The mount cost me just $25, including S/H, and arrived in 3 weeks. The product is well more wholesome than any of the Litepro, but one of the latter might fit better a particular geometry.
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Old 07-28-20, 03:30 AM
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great review!
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Old 07-28-20, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BromptonINrio View Post
great review!
Thanks . On the topic of the FD adapters I started wondering why Brompton is ignored among adapter offerings from Asia. There are tons of other components offered for Brompton, but the adapters are either optimized for the Dahon frames or Birdy. I had to put a rubber shim to make Gineyea work with the Brompton seatpost and its excessively backward derailleur mounting points are not optimal for Brompton either.
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Old 07-28-20, 09:34 AM
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UK Brompton hacker Steve Parry has made some clamp on steel FD mounts..

I used to have one I bought made for CM Wasson the oldest Brompton dealer in the USA.

I sold, it finding the 2 speed Schlumpf internal geared Mountain Drive crank better suited my needs..






...
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Old 07-28-20, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I used to have one I bought made for CM Wasson the oldest Brompton dealer in the USA.

I sold, it finding the 2 speed Schlumpf internal geared Mountain Drive crank better suited my needs..

The CM Wasson was OK, but it is not available in the market and, on its own, given the awkward geometry of a folder, could work directly or not for a particular setup. In my memory I needed to combine it with an asymmetric washer to perfect the angle of the derailleur.

As to Schlumpf vs FD, right now I have 27 speeds - 3 overlaps = 24 independent with FD. It is great, but I look for further optimization so as to use more off the shelf components than now. Say I can make my setup work, but it involves a better part of 2 days of modifying the derailleur cage. If I ever want to change something or something breaks, or I want to reproduce it on another bike, I may need to go through another 2 days and have my whole infrastructure at hand. I would rather avoid that.
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Old 07-29-20, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
The mount cost me just $25, including S/H, and arrived in 3 weeks.
Aliexpress? Taobao?
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Old 07-29-20, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hinge View Post
Aliexpress? Taobao?
AliExpress, over here.
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Old 07-31-20, 10:25 AM
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I wonder if the curvy shape of the vertical bracket would get in the way of attaching a chain catcher. Also the flat front surface of the braze on mount might be problematic for the curved nuts that you need to attach some brands of chain catchers.
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Old 07-31-20, 11:47 AM
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the curvy shape is the hightligh of this build.
the main problrm with regular hanger is that they conflict derrailer in some ways that need to sanding and bending
probably you can even use it with triple cransets!
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Old 07-31-20, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
Thanks . On the topic of the FD adapters I started wondering why Brompton is ignored among adapter offerings from Asia. There are tons of other components offered for Brompton, but the adapters are either optimized for the Dahon frames or Birdy. I had to put a rubber shim to make Gineyea work with the Brompton seatpost and its excessively backward derailleur mounting points are not optimal for Brompton either.

There is this from Ridea. I know nothing about it or its applicability. I have yet to venture into the murky waters of adding a front derailleur.
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Old 07-31-20, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
There is this from Ridea. I know nothing about it or its applicability. I have yet to venture into the murky waters of adding a front derailleur.
Thanks for pointing this one. Somehow when this one is offered, it is only for local sale in Asia. Ridea seems mostly focused on motorcycle products and their marketing of bicycle products is spotty - sometimes the products seem to be just there in leaflets for distributors that never materialize.

Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
I wonder if the curvy shape of the vertical bracket would get in the way of attaching a chain catcher. Also the flat front surface of the braze on mount might be problematic for the curved nuts that you need to attach some brands of chain catchers.
If you mean a chain drop protection, indeed it might conflict with common commercial products. However, in my experience for protection nearly anything attached to anything works. Below is my guard from a piece of alu sheet slipped under BB cup.


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Old 08-01-20, 04:44 AM
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Ohhhh the ridea cranks look nice. Narrow 148mm q factor with 74/130 BCD double in any length. Option for titanium spindle.
https://www.rideabikes.com/product/b...eries/es-r5-mt

I have the 165mm ox 601d from sugino which is discontinued, so you'd have to get the ox901d2 which is quite expensive. This ridea crank would be a nice replacement if the price is right

oh, japanese shops have it for around $400, so it's quite expensive.

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Old 08-01-20, 06:03 AM
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Here is Ridea's adapter for Dahon. FDSD2
https://www.rideabikes.com/product/b...illeur-adapter


Some images taken from this site:
?? : RIDEA ?? NEW **********??Blog? - livedoor Blog**********




It seems that Japanese sellers have it for around $60.
https://gearstation.sakura.ne.jp/GS2h...ideaBrake.html

The nice thing about it is that the cable stop is angled. All the other products I've seen have a completely vertical cable stop, which is wrong, because the cable will come out an angle from the housing and cause some rubbing. Or the cable stop is directly under the arm of the FD, which will increase the amount of FD movement for the same amount of cable pull.

The pushed the braze on further outward, but I think the FD can still reach inward to compensate, but the thickness of the adapter might hit the inner cage plate, so it might still need some shaving.

Last edited by tomtomtom123; 08-01-20 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 08-01-20, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtomtom123 View Post
It seems that Japanese sellers have it for around $60.
RIDEA **********??,??,**********???
.
This link is broken.
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Old 08-01-20, 07:50 AM
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That is pretty neat. It was over a decade ago when I was trying to put a triple on my Airnimal Joey, they added a derailleur mount to it shortly after I bought mine.

I needed a wider range of gears, so I bought a Sram Dual Drive. But if I could have used a front derailleur, I would have gone that option instead.

Thanks for posting.
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Old 08-01-20, 08:52 AM
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The Litepro adapter for Birdy, that I am using, has an angled stop, but still the angle is insufficient and the cable comes out at an significant angle and rubs. If the stop were farther away, the problem would have been alleviated, but it would then need to be taken off the adapter and the adapter adjustments would turn to be more challenging. In the end I stayed with the Litepro's stop, but did some filing to reduce the rubbing and extend cable's lifetime.



Litepro for Birdy
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