Vintage Japanese bikes to collect
#52
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#53
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#55
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...The auto auctions have been nuts the last ten or so years, and now the big buck stuff has crept up through the '80s and into the '90s with a number of cars, some of which I really like. Somehow my '97 Camaro Z28 is still riding the nadir of its value curve. Happily it/I/we go along because parts are cheap and the thing still has a lot of life. I'm not collecting it, that's for sure. The next model year's updated looks and LS1 engine debut fetch several grand more.
What will happen to pre-war anything? I guess Duesenbergs et al will always have their special place, but yeah, all that '50s through '70s stuff is going to take a hit.
I buy to ride and enjoy. I have no commuter bike. I have a rain/fender/winter bike (which is now my Davidson Impulse--excellent idea to enjoy being in un-fun weather), and the rest are "dry [day] bikes" which is usually anything fast. Rare frame? Nice parts? Skinny tires? Yes to all. The only Sunday Riders are ones with original equipment which usually means bad brakes--a no go for in-city Seattle.
What will happen to pre-war anything? I guess Duesenbergs et al will always have their special place, but yeah, all that '50s through '70s stuff is going to take a hit.
I buy to ride and enjoy. I have no commuter bike. I have a rain/fender/winter bike (which is now my Davidson Impulse--excellent idea to enjoy being in un-fun weather), and the rest are "dry [day] bikes" which is usually anything fast. Rare frame? Nice parts? Skinny tires? Yes to all. The only Sunday Riders are ones with original equipment which usually means bad brakes--a no go for in-city Seattle.
But yeah, I don't think the people paying huge amounts at these classic car auctions necessarily think about it, but their purchases will probably lose a ton of value by the time they get passed along to the next generation.
As for my personal bikes, I also put some fenders and wider tires on my vintage wet weather bike, and then enjoy rotating between the others when the pavement is dry. Working on these bikes is great, and riding them is even better.
#56
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Collectables tend to be volatile in value over time. One generation they are hot, another they are not. The only way to make it an "investment with a payoff" is to flip them.
#57
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I think this really depends on your definition of collectible, and your definition of too pricey. The Japanese bikes that are desirable are already relatively pricey...Miyata 1000s, the other grand tourers, Miyata team. As far as good bikes at good value, the Miya 900 series, the Panasonic DX 3000+.
I really like some of the Lotus models, and, IMO, their aero pro truly represents the era.
I really like some of the Lotus models, and, IMO, their aero pro truly represents the era.
#58
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Not being a negative Nancy here but this is a terrible longterm strategy. Fun maybe, but foolish. You have as much chance of the bike's value increasing as you have your grandson selling them for scrap because he just wants rid of them. Your passion does not equal his. I doubt you'd even keep up with inflation. Your aim is very generous and I applaud you for wanting to help your family but there are much safer ways.
#59
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I have so far collected 6 Japanese bikes having started with an early 80s Nishiki Professional w/ all Campagnolo gruppo. At the TOL and/or grail/dream bike you will find IMO little more than race history/tradition to distinguish these bikes as they copied/re-visioned (LOL) the master designs of the European bikes. They were mostly built using tubing made in Japan that equaled or exceeded that of the European tubing, but because they often lack the race history/tradition they can be found at considerable discount. Most of their parts share a comparable discount to that of European parts and are mostly widely available, though some things, brake hoods, are unobtainium.
And they all have the ride of a well made steel lugged frame.
For me it will always be about the ride and moments I have had on rides when the hair stands up on the back of your neck and you realize a moment out of history, you understand those black and white pictures of the hard, hard men who raced these machines over roads we would hardly call roads in conditions where rain, mud, snow and terrible heat were just a given. It only takes a couple of such moments to turn a bicycle from a thing into an experience to be recalled for a life time.
I wish you luck in your journey.
And they all have the ride of a well made steel lugged frame.
For me it will always be about the ride and moments I have had on rides when the hair stands up on the back of your neck and you realize a moment out of history, you understand those black and white pictures of the hard, hard men who raced these machines over roads we would hardly call roads in conditions where rain, mud, snow and terrible heat were just a given. It only takes a couple of such moments to turn a bicycle from a thing into an experience to be recalled for a life time.
I wish you luck in your journey.
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#62
aka: Dr. Cannondale
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#63
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I have the track version of this frame.
I doubt many parts of the collector bike market bear comparison to the collector car market. Maybe at the super high end (e.g. Kalavinka).
On the other hand, they are alike in that the golden days for buying seem to be past us, for now (like in the early 90s when you could get lucky and buy early 80s Italian bikes for $300-400 - if only we'd stashed E-types, 912s, and 914s, and 944s).
#64
Senior Member
I have the track version of this frame.
I doubt many parts of the collector bike market bear comparison to the collector car market. Maybe at the super high end (e.g. Kalavinka).
On the other hand, they are alike in that the golden days for buying seem to be past us, for now (like in the early 90s when you could get lucky and buy early 80s Italian bikes for $300-400 - if only we'd stashed E-types, 912s, and 914s, and 944s).
I doubt many parts of the collector bike market bear comparison to the collector car market. Maybe at the super high end (e.g. Kalavinka).
On the other hand, they are alike in that the golden days for buying seem to be past us, for now (like in the early 90s when you could get lucky and buy early 80s Italian bikes for $300-400 - if only we'd stashed E-types, 912s, and 914s, and 944s).
For vintage MTB, the new trend is converting them to drop bars (I know,not a new concept here) and referring their ride to "26inchlifestyle/26inchlife", which has a growing following. What many do for the latter is to get a late 80s/early 90s MTB with wide enough spacing for 26 x 2.1-2.3 tan/skin wall tires and high end components. Can't say the website here, but on the forum /xbiking, the bikes that commonly show up as desirable are:
Specialized Stumpjumper/Rockhopper/Hotrock, GT,Bianchi, and other high end frames from the era, including (and especially) Japanese made frames.
So the interest is still there, but the niche has moved for sure
#65
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80's Centurion Professional
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#66
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Once a couple of generations pass along, the vast majority of this stuff will likely be considered junk, because nobody will appreciate it. Sure, a few examples will become "antiques" that look cool on display here and there, but there won't be a thriving market for these things.
#67
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H. Tano and son, Kobe Japan
I had a Centurion I got in 1981 and loved it. Unfortunately, I had a bad crash and destroyed the frame. A few months later I was looking at the manual and saw the frame was made by H. Tano and son in Kobe, Japan. Since I was in Korea at the time, I wrote them to see if I could get a one-off custom frame. Long story short, yes I could but had to go to Kobe to get it. I went there and got my new Tange Champion tubed frame in pearl white. The added a nice SunTour headset, and two matched chains/freewheels, and Gran Comp brakes and levers. I was soon on the bullet train going to Tokyo with my new boxed bike.
I still have it and ride occasionally. and it rides beautifully.
Don't know if it is worth anything, but it is essentially in very good to excellent condition. 23" frame with Shimano 105 biopace crankset.
I still have it and ride occasionally. and it rides beautifully.
Don't know if it is worth anything, but it is essentially in very good to excellent condition. 23" frame with Shimano 105 biopace crankset.
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#75
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Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.
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It would be great to get production numbers for some of our favorite Japanese builders. They definitely manufactured less of the top of the line models. That is what I think we all focus on. I now have (2) 1984 Fuji Touring Series IVs, a 1985 Club Fuji, a 1986 Bianchi Sport SX with a nice Tange Japanese frame, and a 1984 Lotus Unique. To me I look at collectibility a bit differently based on the fact that you can still pick the Japanese framed bikes up for crazy-low prices if you keep watching. I am simply investing in these for myself because they are so undervalued these days. The investment for me is buying an old bike for $50 that is currently worth $150-$200, or buying one at $150 that is worth $300-400.