JBinDC

Tandem people,

My girlfriend and I are into road tandeming and have rolled off a bunch of miles on a Santana Visa and now a Cannondale T2. I used to race mountain bikes and would like to get us into mountain tandeming. Is anyone here into this? Even better, does anyone know of a mountain tandem group that ride in the Mid Atlantic area (we live in Washington DC)? The tandemers we know around here aren't familiar with it and so far I've only found Eastern Tandem Rally tends to have one off road ride a year in Delaware.

A couple things are driving this, we flew our Cannondale out to Moab last year for a century there which was an amazing ride but also an amazing pain traveling with a bike without couplers. As a second tandem we'd like to get a versatile travel tandem with S&S that we can mount off road or relatively narrow road tires on. We aren't planning to win any downhill races on this bike but we will definitely be riding rougher terrain than just gravel and fireroads. That said, I don't know whether a bike such as Ventana's dual suspension rig is necessary, it looks crazy heavy but awesome at the same time. We could get a Salsa Powderkeg but not sure what retrofitting S&S to a bike not designed to accept them in the first place would be like...leaving us with buying a Co-motion.

If anybody has time to type out some thoughts I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
JB

Philly Tandem

Have you checked out the MTB Tandems website and/or Facebook page?

https://www.facebook.com/MTB-Tandems...3789186009978/
MTB Tandems | Website

Also, not sure if this would interest you, but I'm probably going to put my Co-Motion Mocha S&S tandem up for sale one of these days. It's a 26" wheeled tandem, but with road bars. In very good to excellent condition. Easy enough to switch out to flat bars, and plenty of room for wide MTB tires. Rigid fork, but takes standard 1-1/8" forks so you could easily retrofit a suspension fork if you wanted to. PM me if you want more details. I'm in the Philadelphia area.

JBinDC

Philly, thank you for the info. Have you guys ridden your tandem off road? We are looking for people that are into this and it seems odd to have a hard time finding 'em. It seems like a sport similar to adventure touring motorcycles, on and off road, better with a pillion rider, beyond just riding the bike it includes travel as a key element. Again, thanks for any responses.

Philly Tandem

We rode ours once or twice on very mild off road (just put some knobbies on it and ran our standard drop bars). My wife wasn't so keen on it, but to be fair it was a twisty trail with lots of going between trees, which kinda freaked her out on the back. (She is a very experienced stoker, so it wasn't that she was scared of stoking in general.) Based on nothing than my own opinion, I think east coast trails are often too twisty and tight for tandems to be as good here as out west, where you have more tandem-friendly trails.

OneIsAllYouNeed

We're into riding on dirt roads and easy trails to avoid traffic. This has lead to quite a few unmaintained roads (tagged Class IV in NH, Class 6 in VT), snowmobile or XC ski trails, ATV trails, etc. As captain, I've always been impressed by the way the tandem handles rough "roads". It's more confidence-inspiring than my hardtail 29er, even with 35-45mm tires on the tandem. We wouldn't intentionally head into a mountain bike park or take a known MTB trail, however. We just built a new custom (but not crazy expensive) bike to meet our needs (S&S couplers, wide tire clearance, 203mm discs, adjustable for a really wide range of stokers). Salsa Powderkeg, Co-Motion Mocha, and Co-Motion Java made our short list, but ultimately weren't versatile enough for our desires -- and more expensive than our custom bike.

I think gear for our intended uses differ in these ways:
Handlebars - we like 42cm drop bars; you'll use flat bars
Tires - our bike can fit 27.5 x 2.2" knobbies; you should consider 3-4" tires for trail riding (you'll want to use the same tire pressure on the tandem as your single bikes, so wider tires are necessary)
Fork - we're using a rigid steel fork; you'll want a suspension fork
Stoker seatpost - we're using a Thudbuster ST; you'll want a long-travel stoker seatpost like the Thudbuster LT
Rear suspension - ours is rigid; I think Ventana, Davinci, and Calfee are your options for full squish tandems

kevrider

following...

wifey and i are not yet tandem riders, but we are presently in the market for a road tandem. if this this little foray goes as anticipated, i hope we will eventually have an offroad touring tandem, something of a Tour Divide bikepacking machine with couplers. so i'm quite interested in this thread and especially this post:

the bikepacking tandem in my head is equipped with a flared drop bar, like my Fargo. i think i would prefer 29" mtn bike tires, versus 27.5, but i'm flexible and everything else in your description is on-target for the dream tandem. would you please share with us who built your bike? Powderkeg is not available in our size, i figured CoMotion was our only play. what were the limitations of the stock bikes you considered? i guess what i am really after is a Fargo for two.

btw, to the OP, i personally would not hesitate to have a frame retrofitted with couplers. Bilenky has a long history and a good reputation, i suspect yo would be happy with the result, if you go that way. if we don't get this dream tandem, there's a good chance wifey and i will eventually have retofitted singles.

OneIsAllYouNeed

Here's our bike, as equipped for our second ride. We've changed the bottle cages (for firmer grip), stoker stem (for more handlebar bag clearance), front disc rotor (less warping), and cassette (warranty issue) since then. The next upgrade coming is a carbon stoker seatpost. I'll try to get a new photo soon.


The frame cost was lower than other custom titanium or carbon options. Delivery was 6 weeks from payment. I was worried about a Ti tandem frame feeling too whippy, but that's been alleviated. The drivetrain stiffness is suitable for serious sprinters. I spec'd and sourced all the other parts. Made-to-order and customized items include: R+E tandem fork, FSA Omega NDS crank (machined), telescoping seatpost extension, rear sync chainring (filed to clear crankarm), rear hub (longer axle), rear disc rotor spacer (it was cheaper to modify an adapter than buy a spacer). I'll be adding multi-hole stoker cranks for the 3'3" stoker soon.

Our basic requirements were:
54mm tire clearance
disk brakes
better at climbing than our Trek T200 steel tandem
adjustable to fit 3'3" to 5'3" stokers (potentially others)
uncompromised fit for captain (very low stack compared to MTBs, typical stack/reach for 57cm road racing bikes)
packable into S&S suitcases
budget-friendly

Essentially we wanted the best features of a Co-Motion Mocha, Co-Motion Periscope, and Santana Beyond for the price of a stock Trek or Cannondale.

For wheel size, we already had a set each of 700c and 650b wheels for our Trek T200. The intent was that the new tandem would fit 27.5 x 2.1" tires or 700c x 38mm tires. As it happened, we started using some Panaracer Pari-Moto 650b x 42mm tires and haven't looked back at the 700c tires. We'll also use WTB Byway 650b x 47mm, Schwalbe Thunder Burt 27.5 x 2.1, and Schwalbe Big One 27.5 x 2.35 on this bike. For S&S bikes, 650b wheels pack easily into the box, while 700c are a bit tight with tires installed.

Some of the relevant specs of our bike:
captain seatpost: 27.2mm
stoker seatpost exentsion: 31.6mm
stoker seatpost: 27.2mm
stoker BB: BB386EVO
captain BB: PF30
rear spacing: 145mm quick release
front spacing: 100mm quick release
headset: 44mm internal
weight: ~39lb as pictured, including seatbag, pump, cages, pedals, computer
gears: 52/34 x 11-42 10-speed SRAM mix
brakes: TRP Hy/Rd w/ 203mm Discobrakes floating rotor front and Shimano RT86 rear

So far we've logged a few hundred miles on the bike. It definitely meets all of our requirements, and is faster on pavement than our old tandem (which wasn't expected). We've had it on fast group rides, 20% grades, ATV trails, unmaintained roads, loaded daytrips, and everything in between. We haven't flown with it yet, but it's been on a few boat rides.

kevrider

dead! sexy! that is one gorgeous machine and looks to be the ultimate all-purpose / touring tandem. even wifey thinks it's hot.

i would not have the nerve to deal directly with a builder as you did, for fear of an omitting something important or making a mistake due to poor understanding of frame manufacturing. but a little googling finds Mr Carver, aka bikeman.com, is a potential intermediary for dealing with XACD, noted here for future reference.

OP, just curious... have you tried mounting 650b x 47mm tires to the Cannondale? in another thread, one poster talks about running WTB road plus tires on his bike, and that's one of the reasons we're looking at a Cannonade for our first tandem. obviously, that doesn't help you with air travel, but maybe that will do for those east coast gravel roads until you get a coupled frame sorted. see post #13: https://www.bikeforums.net/tandem-cy...ts-gravel.html

Philly Tandem

Back to the OP's question, perhaps a better definition of what "off road tandeming" means to you, as that encompasses quite a lot of terrain. Double-track fire roads? Open single track? Twisty single-track NE woods? We've had our 26" wheeled "enduro" tandems (Santana's term for 26" dropped-bar tandems) on a good bit of what I would call off-road, but not necessarily "real" MTB trails. We just got back from 7 days touring in Germany on our Santana Fusion (like Co-Motion Mocha) and had it on some narrow, somewhat rough dirt trails and it did OK, even with 26x1.5 tires and loaded panniers. I've also had 26x2.1 tires on the same bike with no issues.

For my local single-track MTB trails here in PA, a tandem could be challenging as there is a lot of weaving in an out of trees, very tight turns, etc. I'm not sure if even a really good tandem MTB team could make some of the turns, as there is just barely enough room for a single MTB.

DeadGrandpa

I recommend you talk with Alex at MTBtandems. Tell him what kind of bike riding you want to do, and he will suggest tandem solutions he can provide. My girlfriend and I are very happy with our Fandango from MTBtandems, but we're just getting into off road riding.
I have no affiliation with Alex except for being a very satisfied customer. I'm pretty sure anything you get from MTBtandems would be a step up from a Cannondale or Salsa tandem. Good luck.

PMK

Sorry for the late reply as I seldom visit here anymore.

Yes, there is a lot of off road tandem teams in the Eastern US. Two weeks ago, the Dirty Dogs, a NJ based tandem road club with a dirty twist, held their annual ETOR event. We attended and may have driven the greatest distance North to get there, others drove down from NH, not sure how far from the west, but they were there also.

I think the final count was 22 teams of mixed ability. We did not ride gravel trails at all. Everything was pretty sweet single track with a bit of double track. The trail system this year was at White Clay in Delaware.

Ourselves, on the ride up, we rode two days at Warrior Creek in NC, next rode Avalon in Maryland, finishing with the event.

If you are on FaceBook, search ETOR. Also on Facebook is several other great groups. SOORTA, (Self Organized Off Road Tandem Adventure), Tandem Mountain Bikes, Tandem Off Road Bicycles, and AORTA.

Not sure what you are truly considering in regards to a bike. Most common is probably the Ventana ECDM full suspension setup with wheel sizes from 26 to 29 and back to 27.5. Fandango 29s are also super popular. Salsa Powderkegs, we see them, but most are being utilized on less technical riding. Other less common bikes we see, such as Ellsworths, Burleys, KHS and so forth. Cannondales are also seen a bit, as they tend to be durable and are great for entry level teams, as the price is good on used ones.

Alan_F

Another late reply as I also haven't visited this site in a while.

My wife and I have been riding off road for about 3 years after getting invited to the ETOR (Eastern Tandem Rally Off Road) event in 2015. It was in Delaware this year, but was at Allegrippis in PA the two years prior. We started on a 26" rigid Cannondale and quickly upgraded to a Davinci Symbiosis XC 29'er (100mm fork with Thudbuster in the rear). After getting more experience on the local trails I'm thinking of adding a full suspension 27.5" Symbiosis as the closest trails are rocky, rooty, and have a lot of tight turns.

Maybe we could meet up for a ride if you're riding through the winter.

PMK

Back to Allegrippis for 2018.

The 2018 event filled up in under 24 hours.

Great tandem trails. Not the most technical trails, nor the easiest trails, simply fun singletrack riding.