Helmet Head

Heck no! I'm way too lazy. That's why I like riding in fast groups... they push me.

For a while I timed my commute and timed trialed it, but I haven't done that in about a year. I know I'm way slower now than I was about two years ago. It's too depressing to try for it anymore. :-(.

I'm outta here.

Bekologist

I like to crank the ganks while commuting and try to keep up with traffic. I certaintly don't ride full out all the time, but it helps with city traffic if you're as fast or faster then they are. particularily off the stoplights. This style of pace-riding city traffic works pretty good for me.

I like friction shifters because you can downshift a lot of gears at once...

Today I wound up in the middle of a group of 3 Seattle motorcycle cops as they pulled out of a Denny's down by the stadiums on 4th Ave S - the cops didn't have any problem with me using the full lane when 2 pulled out in front, then one behind of me.

I pulled up on the two ahead of me, riding in the left motorcycle's tread track and trailing by about 10 feet, and we all went about 20-25 or so for a few lights, taking the greens. I think the cops in front wanted to peel away, but the roads were real wet so they might have been holding back. After a while they turned off, and I kept heading straight after about a half mile or so.

CHP cops like the ones that ran that peloton off the road deserve some justice meted out for reckless endangerment...

noisebeam

If I was as fast or faster than motorizied suburban traffic, even during rush hour, then I'd be able to put Lance to shame and lap him on the TdF.

I love the feeling I get though when traffic occasionally gets slowed to about bike speed.

Al

Bekologist

yeah, riding in the city versus riding out into the bicycling wastelands of suburbia is a whole different animal....lots of times city traffic is slow, crossing greater Seattle is almost always faster on a bike than stuck in a car. It was fun to pull in a couple of motorcycle cops in a downpour yesterday in the stadium district, and traffic was wide open.

Even when traffic is flowing at speed, a speedy cyclist can cross downtown Seattle on 2 main arterials and keep pace with traffic thru the entire Seattle core. 4th ave going north and 2nd ave headed south. the break in the hill of downtown is pretty evenly split at around Pine street so if a cyclist is moving there, they are usually good to go and keep a traffic pace. even during off hours, the traffic lights keep fast bikers and cars grouped up.

Bellevue, WA, suburbia, just a few short miles away, is nothing at all like this.


In the city, though, it's fun to watch the drivers as you pull slowly abreast of them, then ahead , deadpanning all the while to keep an eye out for cute drivers. i mean bad drivers.

bullethead

The current administrations socio-economic policies are in direct cohesion with that which has been facilitated... In other words, yes.

Crunchie

A few years ago I went on the San Diego AYH Christmas Week ride (hi, HH & genec). A few days in about a half-dozen of us were headed along a flat, narrow road to Borrego Springs. The road wasn't in good shape, concrete with lots of cracks and wide expansion joints, so we were in one line on the shoulder, which wasn't any better. There was moderate traffic, and sometimes two or three cars would follow behind us for a bit waiting for a chance to pull into the other lane and pass (again, narrow road). Nobody honked, it didn't seem like anyone was complaining. Then a CHP pulled along side me (leading at the moment) and yelled (through his speaker) "get off the road!" even though we were already off the road. That immediately raised a lot of questions: Aren't bicycles vehicles in CA? Were we supposed to get off the shoulder? Walk our bikes through the sand? Or maybe he would prefer we just magically disappear? He ordered us to stop, which we did, and he proceeded to act in a pretty irrational manner for several minutes, saying things like "you're screwing up my highway" and accusing me of yelling at him (all his windows were rolled up). He apparently wasn't comfortable with cyclists, because at one point he ordered us to get off our bikes! When we didn't, he realized it wasn't going very well and he was outnumbered. so he retreated to behind his car. By then one of the group had recovered a little from being totally stunned by the ridiculousness of the situation, and he started talking to the guy about how he wanted us to proceed (he might have been a psychologist or a psychic, but actually I think he was a lawyer). The short of it, no tickets, nobody got hauled in to the station, no bikes got towed away. But I was just wondering, you don't suppose this is the same maniac, uh, officer, do you?

Crunchie

P.S. HH, I'm familiar with Governor and Genessee, and have had the same misgivings about flying past the high school. How do you handle the equally speedy downhill the other direction? If the light is green, I'm going over 30, but cars still try to get ahead and then pull right and slow down for the sharp turn in the 5 onramp.

genec

Wow sounds like the CHP somehow feel like they own the freeway.

Hey for the record hiway 5 and Genesee do not meet anywhere near Governor... But to answer your question... when I am moving south on Genesee and the light changes at UCHS... I just keep going... (HH just rolls eyes) as there is no intersection to the right, just a canyon access to a "wilderness area." Now further south past Governor, there is a whole host of obstacles... and having commuted that route for years, I found the best thing to do was just take the lane. Right smack dab in the middle of it... for the following reasons: First... parked cars along the right... even though the bike lane is extra wide there, really moving left into the lane is to set up for the next series of "situations." There is then an intersection with folks either coming out on the right or trying to make a left and cross in front of you (and some dunderhead did just that yesterday*). Then you come across the magic 3 strike on ramps... One a fast swooping ramp off of Genesee (probably the one you were thinking of) where motorist tend to just build up speed and zip on to 52 west, then there is an entrance onto 52 west, again a left, meaning you need to watch for crossing motorists again. And finally the exit off of 52 west to Genesee south... which is a 270 degree loop for exiting cars which ends in a merge that doesn't allow motorists to see well onto the surface street... so they often don't look and just zoom onto Genessee.

So in this whole area, I take the right lane, and give lots of slow and left signals to any motor traffic that tries to pass. And when I come to that loop exit, I make sure I am well to the left while watching for traffic coming off that loop... and I will merge behind them. All in all a bad place to be at night.

*So yesterday I was coming back from the office (yeah Saturday) and approaching the usual bunch of odd intersections/ramps I chose my usual spot in the middle of the right lane, and some guy wanted to turn left in front of me... of course, while I am doing about 28MPH. Well I anticipated him... as he pulled out across the street, I moved to be behind him. Only about half way across... he suddenly stops... blocking the right lane. I am lined up to hit his right rear quarter panel.... jeeze... what an idiot. Well traffic was light, and I had just enough time to see that I could move further left and clear the guy, who had actually continued... at a sail's pace. Thanks a lot... idiot. BTW I was wearing a bright orange long sleeve Tshirt... do you think he just didn't see me? Ya gotta wonder.

Edit: added pic from Google earth with enhancements to show paths and intersections.

Daily Commute

Unfortunately, if a cop orders you to do something, you generally need to do it. Disobeying a cop's order can be an offense by itself. Of course, the judge might (stress the word "might") let you off if you can show that the cop's an idiot, but do you really want to risk it? Disobey a cop's direct order at your own risk.

In this case, the proper action would be to note the license or number on the cop's car, pull over, wait for the cop to drive away, then get back on the road. When you're done with the ride, report the cop. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, go up the chain and contact your local cyclist advocacy group to see if they can back you up.

You also never know why the cop is giving the order. Maybe there's something dangerous coming down the road, an oversized load, perhaps. Here, it looks like the cop was being an idiot, but you often don't know that until after-the-fact.

CB HI

In which case the cop has a duty to at least quickly state a good reason for his odd (possibly illegal) order.

genec

I went head to head with a cop regarding "their orders" about a year ago... it was like talking to a wall.

I work in a area that has been under construction for several years... widening a freeway, adding new offramps... that sort of thing. Near my office is an intersection that floods often... I mean heavy fog, and that intersection floods. Well it has done it for so long and it has been marked as a hazard for so long that the locals know to avoid it, or how to get around it.

Well last year San Diego had a record rainfall... 3rd heaviest in recorded history... and naturally the flooded intersection was typically flooded, and the usual barriers were up and people did their usual thing.

Now the issue is that the office I work in is about a 1/2 block from the intersection and easily reachable without crossing the flood. Well for some odd reason, one particular day last year, the police department was out in force defending the flood barriers... which they had moved further from the flood, to cut off all access roads... the situation was no different from what it had been 364 days of the year... except now police were out in force.

I was going to my office about 9:00 AM and was stopped by the police. Never mind that half the staff had already arrived at the office prior to the police arrival... no, that little detail was well overlooked.

So the police solution was for folks to park their cars in an illegal manner and walk to the office. Then they began ticketing cars.

They had no real solution... other then to enforce the barriers (which we had been going around 364 days of the year).

I talked to the senior officer at the scene, and he was a pure stone wall. No solution, no discussion, no change, just "don't cross the barrier."

After about two hours, and one of the secretaries calling the PD and talking to a senior officer... suddenly the police left the scene, and left the barriers just as they had been 364 days out of the year. No explaination... just pure stubborn bullheadedness.

Yeah, getting a cop to explain the situation often is much much harder than it seems like it should be.

Helmet Head

FWIW, I concur with Gene's reply to Crunchie in #107, except for the part where I roll my eyes. The only thing I would roll at that T intersection red light preceding a long uphill is my crank shaft at about 110 rpm!

Ngchen

You're right regarding following lawful orders from cops. IIRC in my driving handbook, it specifically notes that cops can order you to do things in traffic that would otherwise be illegal. Politely inquiring about the special circumstance would probably be OK. If the cop is abusing his/her authority, remember the badge number and/or name, and complain after the fact, noting time, date, and location.

genec

Cool... I know of about 3 T intersections that I regularly ride, and for the life of me I cannot think of a good reason to stop when the light turns red, except to satisfy a cop that might be in the area.

RE the "rolling of eyes..." hey... the legal thing to do is stop...

Helmet Head

The conceptual equivalent is a 2 lane road with a road coming in from the left only (nothing to the right, a "T") and drivers on that road coming in being restricted to the left lane only, while through drivers on the 2-lane road being restriced to the right lane.

I don't know of any intersections actually implemented like that (for motorists), but, if they were, then there would be no reason to stop traffic moving across the top of the "T". Yet that's essentially what's going on when the solid striped bike lane runs across the top of the "T".

Now, having said that, someone on the group ride recently told me that he did that once, and a left turning motorist intentionally merged into the bike lane right in front of the red-light-running cyclist, forcing him to slam on his brakes. He's sure the driver was trying to teach him a lesson, so watch out for that one.

noisebeam

Two reasons:
Pedestrians x-ing from stem of T to top (on both sides of stem) and Cyclists turning left from the stem into the lane you are blowing the red on.
Al

genec

OK, you're right... but every time I have been to these various intersections, neither condition existed... and a couple of these intersections are in places where neither condition is likely to exist.

The school area however is one where either or both could exist.

Point well taken.

noisebeam

(I realize the point is taken and so am not hammering on this to you, but discussing more generally)
It is the fact that these are places where neither condition is likely to exist, combined with the 'cars-are-the-only-potential hazard so there is no reason to stop attitude' that can result in seeing right thru another cyclist or pedestrian if one doesn't stop or slow significantly and look hard for the unusual and unexpected.

Al

genec

I hear ya... in one of these locations though (very near my house, so I blast through it often) is stoplight for a freeway exit ramp that Ts into a main artery... not likely that either peds or bikes are gonna be on that exit ramp... ever.

I will give second thoughts to the school location though, as kids could come from the canyon and be "invisible" to me on my approach. Thanks for the food for thought.

Helmet Head

+1

Very astute.

DCCommuter

They're called freeway onramps.

Helmet Head

No, on freeway onramps traffic merges in from the right... into the slow lane.

In my description I was talking about the traffic merging in from the left, into the fast lane.

But, conceptually, there are similarities, to be sure.

genec

I do, there are those in my area that try to "teach" cyclists...

BTW on your next comment... regarding freeway on ramps... I know of at least two in the east county that merge slower incoming traffic into the freeway left lane...

So road engineers are not blessed with common sense in all cases either.

Daily Commute

I agree with Ngchen. The cops don't owe anyone an immediate explanation. Although the cop may just be a pig-headed ignoramous, he may also have a darn good reason for ordering you off the road for a given stretch.

When dealing with cops, the best action is almost always to comply now, complain later.