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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 02-26-18, 02:01 PM
  #2576  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
apparently you can get your cat 1 upgrade without the full 35 points now, and instead, petition to USAC, and they'll do it?? it's definitely not something i'd do, but I know of 3 guys who have done it?? one of these guys had like 6 points from crits, and couldn't even hang in a 60 mile road race as a cat 3 last year??? wtf**********
I call that the Stefano.
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Old 02-26-18, 02:19 PM
  #2577  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
apparently you can get your cat 1 upgrade without the full 35 points now, and instead, petition to USAC, and they'll do it?? it's definitely not something i'd do, but I know of 3 guys who have done it?? one of these guys had like 6 points from crits, and couldn't even hang in a 60 mile road race as a cat 3 last year??? wtf**********
I know of some questionable upgrades, but they were at least close-ish.

That's just sad.

Maybe we can all petition USAC to stop allowing just anyone to be cat 1!
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Old 02-26-18, 02:35 PM
  #2578  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
one of these guys had like 6 points from crits, and couldn't even hang in a 60 mile road race as a cat 3 last year??? wtf**********
could you provide a little more info? maybe a link to race results? (you can use this format: http://usacycling.org/results/?compid=first+last)

surely there must be more to it.

i've heard of early upgrades at all levels -- even the ones approved by CO springs -- but 6 points from someone who 'could not hang' as a cat 3 seems... unlikely.
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Old 02-26-18, 03:08 PM
  #2579  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
could you provide a little more info? maybe a link to race results? (you can use this format: http://usacycling.org/results/?compid=first+last)

surely there must be more to it.

i've heard of early upgrades at all levels -- even the ones approved by CO springs -- but 6 points from someone who 'could not hang' as a cat 3 seems... unlikely.
I don't want to post names on here, but check your pm
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Old 02-26-18, 03:58 PM
  #2580  
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Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
Yeah, I enjoyed that one. The commentator at one point said something like "he's trying to get on his wheel."
The speed-skating relay races were pretty insane too. It was like a madison on ice, as the out-going skater would push the new rider forward.
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Old 02-26-18, 04:34 PM
  #2581  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
I call that the Stefano.
I understood that reference!
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Old 02-26-18, 04:34 PM
  #2582  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I know of some questionable upgrades, but they were at least close-ish.

That's just sad.

Maybe we can all petition USAC to stop allowing just anyone to be cat 1!
There's certainly a deterioration... (probably said by every generation).

I think being able to use weeknight training crits for upgrade points is a copout for the upper categories (3s and up should have to get points in actual weekend races, in my opinion), but even that pales in comparison to using a few points from master's races as well. I mean, that's not even racing in a p/1/2 race (yes, I know many master's racers are 1/2; it's still not a 1/2 race).
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Old 02-26-18, 05:16 PM
  #2583  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
There's certainly a deterioration... (probably said by every generation).

I think being able to use weeknight training crits for upgrade points is a copout for the upper categories (3s and up should have to get points in actual weekend races, in my opinion), but even that pales in comparison to using a few points from master's races as well. I mean, that's not even racing in a p/1/2 race (yes, I know many master's racers are 1/2; it's still not a 1/2 race).
Seems like a slippery slope...we have a lot of weekends where there is a big race all the names show up to and another that has a relatively light 1/2/3 field.

I get what you're saying though. A Cat 1 should get their points via premier events, but that also punishes some regions (and masters). Personally, I don't think there are enough Cat 1's out there for it to be an issue. Than again, I'm not a Cat 1.
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Old 02-26-18, 05:58 PM
  #2584  
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Oh man, my coach has gone on so many epic rants RE: soft 1's in CCA and MABRA.

I will say that using training crits for upgrade points is not my cup of tea. I kinda wish you still had to collect em in a rolling 12 month period too. I am a glutton for punishment.
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Old 02-26-18, 06:06 PM
  #2585  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
Oh man, my coach has gone on so many epic rants RE: soft 1's in CCA and MABRA.

I will say that using training crits for upgrade points is not my cup of tea. I kinda wish you still had to collect em in a rolling 12 month period too. I am a glutton for punishment.
Yes! With minimum field sizes!

I spent months traveling out of state to do races with sufficient field sizes. Up mountains both ways in the snow.

Now it's like, "here's 5 points for winning a 12 person master's field" or some such shenanigans.
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Old 02-26-18, 06:07 PM
  #2586  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I kinda wish you still had to collect em in a rolling 12 month period too. I am a glutton for punishment.
Nobody's stopping you from doing that. =]

@Ygduf & I are old enough to remember that rule, and for the record upgraded to 1 during its reign. Hell I got like 50 points in less than six months.

Some of the crits I won/placed in were 2/3's crits. Someone once said I got to 1 "the easy way" - what's funny is they were in some of the same "easy" races, trying to do it the "easy way," and still couldn't get it done. They're still a 2.

But none of us new-age 1's are as hardcore as the olden days, when there were only like 200 1's in the US, and you had to keep getting points to stay a 1. Uphill both ways no less!

At the end of the day, I don't actually care that much about how someone gets to cat 1, even if it does dilute the awesomeness of being a 1. If they sucked on the way to their cat 1 upgrade, they'll continue to suck in races. All that matters is who wins & gets in the money. (to cat 1's)
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Old 02-26-18, 06:09 PM
  #2587  
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No doubt, all in 12 months is what I'm hoping for! But I'm not above using the few I picked up last year if I have to
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Old 02-26-18, 06:13 PM
  #2588  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Seems like a slippery slope...we have a lot of weekends where there is a big race all the names show up to and another that has a relatively light 1/2/3 field.

I get what you're saying though. A Cat 1 should get their points via premier events, but that also punishes some regions (and masters). Personally, I don't think there are enough Cat 1's out there for it to be an issue. Than again, I'm not a Cat 1.
I don't know about punishing regions. I mean, I didn't race much in TN the year I got my upgrade because we didn't have fields big enough at that point (even today, for most races). But I feel that kind of represents what a cat 1 is; a regional to national level rider. Winning local weekday crits is alright and everything, but it doesn't necessarily say anything about anything. You may be beating out national level riders, or you may be beating out local cat 3s who have never raced out of their city. There's a big variability there.

Having minimum races in a 12 month period or something like it used to be meant that you were hitting the road, seeking out the good races, and getting legitimate results. It was kind of a big deal. Now, eh.

At the end of the day, everyone pretty much knows what's up, of course, and you've got legit cat 1s and pretender cat 1s and it's pretty evident once the race starts, but still.
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Old 02-26-18, 06:15 PM
  #2589  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post

But none of us new-age 1's are as hardcore as the olden days, when there were only like 200 1's in the US, and you had to keep getting points to stay a 1. Uphill both ways no less!
Ha, yes! Those were the days to hear it told!
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Old 02-26-18, 06:36 PM
  #2590  
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IIRC to be a 1 you also had to have a mustache, which at the time was the biggest difference between the domestic peloton and the euro peloton.
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Old 02-26-18, 10:11 PM
  #2591  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
I don't want to post names on here, but check your pm
I agree about not posting names You could post the USAC # and then the name itself is not floating around (/searchable) but someone could find the results in question.

I looked at the PM you sent me (thanks) and spent a few minutes scanning the results. What stood out to me is that he was racing as a Cat 3 in June/July. He did well at Tulsa Tough as a Cat 3 (legit result in the 3s), and then on July 20th he won the Driveway Series Cat 3/4 field -- and on the same night also took 8th in the 1/2/3 field. He's listed as a 1 on those results.

Lots of his results are from that Driveway Series.

He only raced the 1/2/3 field on 7/13, so he didn't get a forced upgrade mid-way through the 7/20 races; that can happen sometimes.

Yeah... I don't see it. You need to get 6th or better to get points for a crit, even in a large field. He's done that a couple times.

In theory, results from a single series should not count towards an early upgrade. If a rider got a big result at 1 or 2 NRC races, for example, against national competition, that is more meaningful that 3rd, 6th, 9th , 8th, 3rd at a single local series. And if the rider did get those results at a couple NRC races, it is probably not a problem for them to get a couple more results.

I'm surprised. Perhaps there is more to the story. Otherwise, this doesn't appear to be a case of letting a point or 2 slide. Looks like there are maybe 8 points. Correct me if I'm wrong there -- I spent 5 minutes on it and could have missed something.
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Old 02-27-18, 03:11 AM
  #2592  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
I agree about not posting names You could post the USAC # and then the name itself is not floating around (/searchable) but someone could find the results in question.

I looked at the PM you sent me (thanks) and spent a few minutes scanning the results. What stood out to me is that he was racing as a Cat 3 in June/July. He did well at Tulsa Tough as a Cat 3 (legit result in the 3s), and then on July 20th he won the Driveway Series Cat 3/4 field -- and on the same night also took 8th in the 1/2/3 field. He's listed as a 1 on those results.

Lots of his results are from that Driveway Series.

He only raced the 1/2/3 field on 7/13, so he didn't get a forced upgrade mid-way through the 7/20 races; that can happen sometimes.

Yeah... I don't see it. You need to get 6th or better to get points for a crit, even in a large field. He's done that a couple times.

In theory, results from a single series should not count towards an early upgrade. If a rider got a big result at 1 or 2 NRC races, for example, against national competition, that is more meaningful that 3rd, 6th, 9th , 8th, 3rd at a single local series. And if the rider did get those results at a couple NRC races, it is probably not a problem for them to get a couple more results.

I'm surprised. Perhaps there is more to the story. Otherwise, this doesn't appear to be a case of letting a point or 2 slide. Looks like there are maybe 8 points. Correct me if I'm wrong there -- I spent 5 minutes on it and could have missed something.
he hasn't earned it, I know that much. it doesn't bother me or anything. like you, I'm just surprised and was wondering if this was common.
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Old 02-27-18, 09:37 AM
  #2593  
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Wife was chatting it up with one of the Jelly Belly riders this morning, they're staying in her hotel in Carlsbad. I don't recall how many pro sports teams she's seen that way, but its a few.
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Old 02-27-18, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Wife was chatting it up with one of the Jelly Belly riders this morning, they're staying in her hotel in Carlsbad. I don't recall how many pro sports teams she's seen that way, but its a few.
Jellybelly team HQ is San Marcos, and their traveling riders have often stayed in Carlsbad. Team pictures are usually within 15-20 minutes drive of HQ.

Some good riding, even for the big guns, in that area. The hard group rides are ridiculously hard, at least to me.
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Old 02-27-18, 11:28 AM
  #2595  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Jellybelly team HQ is San Marcos, and their traveling riders have often stayed in Carlsbad. Team pictures are usually within 15-20 minutes drive of HQ.

Some good riding, even for the big guns, in that area. The hard group rides are ridiculously hard, at least to me.
That and some of the best riding in the world is only about 40 miles north.
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Old 02-27-18, 02:01 PM
  #2596  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
he hasn't earned it, I know that much. it doesn't bother me or anything. like you, I'm just surprised and was wondering if this was common.
upgrading from 2->1 on 8 points and from a local series (even if that series draws good talent) seems off.
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Old 02-27-18, 02:08 PM
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I spent my boyhood (years 2-10) on Lodgepole road in San Marcos, about 1.5 blocks from what I assume is the Jelly Belly HQ. I say this because I still ride through there from time to time for nostalgiac purposes and I always take note of this house with a huge Jelly Belly bus and team cars on Lake Ridge road.
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Old 02-27-18, 02:58 PM
  #2598  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
upgrading from 2->1 on 8 points and from a local series (even if that series draws good talent) seems off.
This presumes that all of his results are posted to USAC. Some promoters fail to post results.

As far as becoming a Cat 1, on the track, USAC requires you have results from more than one Velodrome to move up.
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Old 02-27-18, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
I spent my boyhood (years 2-10) on Lodgepole road in San Marcos, about 1.5 blocks from what I assume is the Jelly Belly HQ. I say this because I still ride through there from time to time for nostalgiac purposes and I always take note of this house with a huge Jelly Belly bus and team cars on Lake Ridge road.
That would be it, although I didn't know about the bus. This is maybe 12-13 years ago, putting racks on the cars.

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Old 02-27-18, 04:07 PM
  #2600  
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There's a good chance it may snow at the Devil's Punchbowl for UCLA RR; since my race starts at 7am it'll be in the low 30's. Can someone from a region that actually snows let me know how they deal with this? Do they cancel it or do we race?
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