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My N.C. club is resuming group rides

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My N.C. club is resuming group rides

Old 05-26-20, 06:48 AM
  #76  
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I must say that cyclists are a reasonable bunch, not like the covidiots out there not social distancing. Our club, located in Pennsylvania, most likely will not have a group ride until several doctors (MD's and DO's) who belong to the club provide our board the OK. While I am sure we all want to ride with our friends, we all want to be safe. It's good to see some sanity in these insane times.
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Old 05-26-20, 07:09 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
You realize that quote was part of a rallying cry for Americans to trust government efforts to mitigate a crisis, right?
So- stumping for his govt-funded proposals to get the country out of the Depression is tantamount to forcing hundreds of thousands of businesses to close leaving millions unemployed and trashing our 1st, 4th, 8th & 14th (Sec 1) amendment rights?
Really?
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Old 05-26-20, 07:10 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
FDR had polio, founded the March of Dimes and focused a ton of effort on furthering the study communicable diseases. So yeah, kudos on the great example.
True but so what? Not germain to the current situation.
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Old 05-26-20, 07:13 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by badger1
You are wrong. You haven't a clue.

That aside, rants such as this belong in either P&R or the dedicated Cv19 sub-forum, in The Lounge.

In my opinion. Please tell me where I'm wrong.
Just gave my opinions. Well if that's your opinion fine but you didn't elaborate as to why I'm wrong.
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Old 05-26-20, 07:15 AM
  #80  
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Apologies for the rants didn't intend to stray from the forum topic it just snowballed.
West
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Old 05-26-20, 07:33 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by 2seven0
I guess FDR was just a blithering fool to have opined that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself. Shake the fairy dust from your skirts and go out and live your life for crying out loud!
Originally Posted by WhyFi
FDR had polio, founded the March of Dimes and focused a ton of effort on furthering the study communicable diseases. So yeah, kudos on the great example.
Originally Posted by 2seven0
True but so what? Not germain to the current situation.
If you don't think it's germain [sic], you either a) have no idea of what's going on now and what went on then or b) you have an exceptionally poor ability to apply past knowledge to similar situations. FDR wouldn't have suffered from either of these problems.
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Old 05-26-20, 09:22 AM
  #82  
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Record unemployment leads to record rate of suicide. That’s real news.
It’s idiocy to have what amounts to basically the exact same shut down policies nationwide.
Sheep on
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Old 05-26-20, 10:05 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Your above referenced study is a joke.
A non peer reviewed theory based only on computer calculations performed by people in the aerodynamics field.
it's the best data available at this point.

And it comports with common sense. The exact reason we draft, to stay in the dirty air of the rider in front, is the same reason that drafting potentially poses a substantial risk of transmitting the disease.

Do you have any reason or data to contradict the fluid analysis set forth in the article?

The fact that professional racers became sick at the same race is some anecdotal evidence to support this.

But most importantly, the absence of evidence of a thing is not evidence of the absence of that thing.

So the fact that we do not have peer reviewed, randomized, blinded, studies of transmission of Covid 19 in group rides, in no way means it is a reasonable risk to participate in group rides at this point in time.
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Old 05-26-20, 10:19 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
It is in fact the Wuhan Virus.
Or more commonly, the Chinese Virus.
It is not politicized.
Back in the day did you also rant against West Nile Virus, Zika, and Ebola?
So woke
Ebola, West Nile, and Zika are in no way comparable to Covid 19.

The worst out break of Ebola to date killed 11,000 people , and with aggressive containment efforts was contained to a region in Africa. We know how its transmitted, and in developed countries, with good public health is just doesn't pose a pandemic risk.

Zika rarely kills anyone. The risk is predominantly to unborn fetuses, thus pregnant women do need to avoid areas where the disease is prevalent

For West Nile, the worst year in the US it killed fewer than 300 people.

Zika and West Nile risk both can be dealt with mosquito control.

Covid 19 is much easier to transmit, and harder to contain. Even with the huge containment effort Covid 19 has killed 325,000 people, and that number continues to grow.
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Old 05-26-20, 10:29 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by 2seven0
So- stumping for his govt-funded proposals to get the country out of the Depression is tantamount to forcing hundreds of thousands of businesses to close leaving millions unemployed and trashing our 1st, 4th, 8th & 14th (Sec 1) amendment rights?
Really?
I was pointing out context which renders it questionable as an argument against current measures, not claiming that it's a strong argument in favor of them. I don't really care whether the latter is true, and given the haphazard trajectorization of discourse in this thread, I wouldn't bother defending it here even if I did.
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Old 05-26-20, 06:58 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Ebola, West Nile, and Zika are in no way comparable to Covid 19.

The worst out break of Ebola to date killed 11,000 people , and with aggressive containment efforts was contained to a region in Africa. We know how its transmitted, and in developed countries, with good public health is just doesn't pose a pandemic risk.

Zika rarely kills anyone. The risk is predominantly to unborn fetuses, thus pregnant women do need to avoid areas where the disease is prevalent

For West Nile, the worst year in the US it killed fewer than 300 people.

Zika and West Nile risk both can be dealt with mosquito control.

Covid 19 is much easier to transmit, and harder to contain. Even with the huge containment effort Covid 19 has killed 325,000 people, and that number continues to grow.
Nice job completely missing the point that the naming of the virus is not racist 👍
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Old 05-26-20, 07:01 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
it's the best data available at this point.

And it comports with common sense. The exact reason we draft, to stay in the dirty air of the rider in front, is the same reason that drafting potentially poses a substantial risk of transmitting the disease.

Do you have any reason or data to contradict the fluid analysis set forth in the article?

The fact that professional racers became sick at the same race is some anecdotal evidence to support this.

But most importantly, the absence of evidence of a thing is not evidence of the absence of that thing.

So the fact that we do not have peer reviewed, randomized, blinded, studies of transmission of Covid 19 in group rides, in no way means it is a reasonable risk to participate in group rides at this point in time.
It is most certainly not the best data available at this point. It is simply a theory with 0 testing.
There is not even one viral specialist involved in the study 🙄
It has in fact already been mostly debunked by recognized viral specialists.
The only reason it ever made the rounds is that it appeals to scared sheep.
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Old 05-26-20, 09:46 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
It is most certainly not the best data available at this point. It is simply a theory with 0 testing.
There is not even one viral specialist involved in the study 🙄
It has in fact already been mostly debunked by recognized viral specialists.
The only reason it ever made the rounds is that it appeals to scared sheep.
Ok, let’s see your data, and we’ll analyze. Throwing out conclusions, with no data or analysis, doesn’t add much to the discussion.

And on the subject of missing points, I fully understand my link was simply about fluid dynamics and how particles move in the air, not done by epidemiologists.
It’s A piece of the puzzle. It establishes that there is good reason to believe you would get a significant viral load in that circumstance. Whether in actuality that is going to lead to infection, we need more data. It’s not like it’s a real high priority right now to do blinded, randomized,controlled studies on pace lines. so you work with the data you have, and you make reasoned risk balancing decisions based on the information available.

Nothing about this is black and white. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, with Covid 19, there are few known knowns, many known unknowns, and even more unknown unknowns. In other words, we don’t even know what what we don’t know.

So some reasoned risk balancing, with a dose of caution seems to be highly in order. Particularly when the subject is group rides, where the marginal cost of delaying group rides is pretty darn small, and the cost, if you turn out to be wrong catastrophic.
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Old 05-26-20, 10:22 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
It is in fact the Wuhan Virus.
Or more commonly, the Chinese Virus.
It is not politicized.
Back in the day did you also rant against West Nile Virus, Zika, and Ebola?
So woke
Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Nice job completely missing the point that the naming of the virus is not racist 👍

Except the virus is not in fact named or "most commonly" referred to as either "Wuhan" or "Chinese". The accepted and used name of the virus by the medical and scientific communities is SARS-CoV-2 and the disease it causes COVID-19. The "most commonly" way to refer to it by news reports and other lay persons, like the typical person on the street, is "the coronavirus" or "covid-19". It's disingenuous to claim that the very, very few people that call it Wuhan or China are not politicians and their followers that are trying to politicize the virus and attach racial (Chinese) connotations and blame. They hide their politicization behind the way that viruses were commonly called in the past as if it still applies to this one. It certainly is not "most commonly" called that as you claim. Calling it that is an exception and an inaccurate or ignorant one at that.

Last edited by Camilo; 05-26-20 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 05-26-20, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wafranklin
The hospitals here in South Florida are sending emails to customers trying to talk
them into coming in. They are begging for customers.

The situation in Missouri where I have family is similar. I have a family member who is a financial
advisor in MO. He told me his Doctor clients are taking early retirement because they
don't have anything to do.
What you're saying is true in some cities I'm familiar with too. But I think this is mostly caused by the success of public policies reducing non-essential procedures and discouraging people from going to ERs and clinics for non-essential reasons. Behind that was a public policy trying to avoid overload of the health care system - and why didn't that happen? Could be that the virus didn't impact us as much as projected and could be because the public health policies and guidelines actually worked to "flatten the curve" and accomplish the stated goal of avoiding overload of the system. Both policies (the "flatten the curve" policies and the "avoid non-essential procedures and ER visits policies) combined to cause this.

So, I consider this to probably be a success of the policies that were instituted and suggested and projections of this unknown public health crisis maybe being too high (emphasize "maybe" - it's a novel situation remember and data and learning is on-going. We won't really know for a while).

It's not good that health care workers in some places don't have work (I suspect it will rebound quickly), but the alternative might well have been that more places were totally stressed like in some hot spots. If the worst case scenarios had come to pass - and they may well still happen with later "waves" and complacency - the would have been recruiting generalists of all professions into acute/intensive practice.
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Old 05-27-20, 04:20 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Except the virus is not in fact named or "most commonly" referred to as either "Wuhan" or "Chinese". The accepted and used name of the virus by the medical and scientific communities is SARS-CoV-2 and the disease it causes COVID-19. The "most commonly" way to refer to it by news reports and other lay persons, like the typical person on the street, is "the coronavirus" or "covid-19". It's disingenuous to claim that the very, very few people that call it Wuhan or China are not politicians and their followers that are trying to politicize the virus and attach racial (Chinese) connotations and blame. They hide their politicization behind the way that viruses were commonly called in the past as if it still applies to this one. It certainly is not "most commonly" called that as you claim. Calling it that is an exception and an inaccurate or ignorant one at that.
A long time ago NZ started growing Chinese Gooseberries. After a while they were renamed Kiwi Fruit because we grew more of them than anyone else. And we exported them all over the world.
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Old 05-27-20, 04:26 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Except the virus is not in fact named or "most commonly" referred to as either "Wuhan" or "Chinese". The accepted and used name of the virus by the medical and scientific communities is SARS-CoV-2 and the disease it causes COVID-19. The "most commonly" way to refer to it by news reports and other lay persons, like the typical person on the street, is "the coronavirus" or "covid-19". It's disingenuous to claim that the very, very few people that call it Wuhan or China are not politicians and their followers that are trying to politicize the virus and attach racial (Chinese) connotations and blame. They hide their politicization behind the way that viruses were commonly called in the past as if it still applies to this one. It certainly is not "most commonly" called that as you claim. Calling it that is an exception and an inaccurate or ignorant one at that.
My bad as I should have referenced that it WAS commonly called the Wuhan or Chinese virus until it became another way to wrongly attack Trump.
And ofc in the process, help spread Chinese propaganda.
Do a quick Google search and you instantly come up with dozens of times that early on the media, including CNN, refer to it as the Wuhan or Chinese Coronavirus.
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Old 05-27-20, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Do a quick Google search and you instantly come up with dozens of times that early on the media, including CNN, refer to it as the Wuhan or Chinese Coronavirus.
Which was common sense when Wuhan was the only place it was active.
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Old 05-27-20, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 2seven0
So- stumping for his govt-funded proposals to get the country out of the Depression is tantamount to forcing hundreds of thousands of businesses to close leaving millions unemployed and trashing our 1st, 4th, 8th & 14th (Sec 1) amendment rights?
Really?
How is skipping group rides relevant to closing businesses?

Talk about straw-man argument.

You want businesses to open up again and have people willing to visit them? Then help stop the spread of the disease.

Please don’t play the “what about the businesses” card while trying to rationalize behavior that further endangers them.

Remember, just because YOU don’t die of the desease does not mean you won’t spread it to people who will.

And lastly, just because it is our right to be selfish and endanger others with our actions, it does not mean we should. Along with rights comes responsibility.
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Old 05-27-20, 05:33 AM
  #95  
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what has changed is hospitals & morgues have room for more victims. they told us to stay home cuz the bodies were piling up

riding 60 ft apart sounds safe but how is that a group ride?
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Old 05-27-20, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
It is most certainly not the best data available at this point. It is simply a theory with 0 testing.
There is not even one viral specialist involved in the study 🙄
It has in fact already been mostly debunked by recognized viral specialists.
The only reason it ever made the rounds is that it appeals to scared sheep.
Please show where it was debunked with anything other than more... as you dismiss it.... theory.

You seem to confuse “unknown risk” with “no risk”.

I am baffled by your risk/benefit analysis here: Unknown risk (of transmitting COVID-19) and essentially zero benefit (riding in a group vs solo). This sounds like a pretty clear “no thanks” to me.
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Old 05-28-20, 05:59 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by znomit
Which was common sense when Wuhan was the only place it was active.
It was and is common sense because it is where it originated.
Fixed it for you
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Old 05-28-20, 06:04 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
Please show where it was debunked with anything other than more... as you dismiss it.... theory.

You seem to confuse “unknown risk” with “no risk”.

I am baffled by your risk/benefit analysis here: Unknown risk (of transmitting COVID-19) and essentially zero benefit (riding in a group vs solo). This sounds like a pretty clear “no thanks” to me.
I never said or implied ‘no risk’
I definitely believe there is risk involved in group riding. There is risk involved with any outdoor activity that involves more than one person imo.
My point was not about risk.
I only jumped in here because someone referenced that study quite incorrectly.
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Old 05-28-20, 11:47 AM
  #99  
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They just started group rides as Memphis TN enters phase II, I bumped into a group of them this morning, not sure I'm ready for group rides myself

Originally Posted by taco2ewsday
My local club in Memphis is still on hold, Glad I got in on the St Patricks day ride before it all shut down. they've cancelled two "big rides" and all weekly rides until further notice
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Old 05-28-20, 12:27 PM
  #100  
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awww St Pats Day ... bossman usually buys lunch & we get hammered in the conference room then pretend to work or leave early. this year I took the lunch chatted in the main shipping area but took a pass on the close quarters drink fest - opted for a walk outside- got a cpl looks but I cud tell some were thinking hmmm... yeah maybe we shouldn’t do this. I guess none of us had the bug cuz since then no one got sick (that we know of) here’s to next year 🍸 !
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