banerjek

I've been running STI since 9 speed systems were the big thing. I'm a huge fan and have used various Shimano and SRAM levels on my bikes over the years.

However, I've found the occasional failures (usually every 20-25K miles at some inopportune time) to be a pain because all the field fixes wind you limping home with a lot less gear selection that you'd like and an expensive purchase to look forward to.

The last time my Rival lever broke (3rd failure for that type) a few years ago on my workhorse commuter, I decided I was tired of buying levers and switched that bike back to DT. I live in a city and work on a steep hill and found that 1 tooth clicks really weren't optimum for commuting at uneven speeds or for hills as I found a huge percentage of my shifts required skipping cogs.

I'm finding that for at least that sort of riding, I prefer DT to integrated shifting. Taking a hand off the bar is a minus but the actual shift is faster than STI, I've never thrown a chain or missed a shift, and the reliability is bombproof. I still run Ultegra on my race bike which I still prefer for environments where my effort and speed are more consistent.

I'm wondering if I'm the only one who actually thinks DT is a superior way to shift for certain types of riding, or if I'm sliding toward retrogrouchiness?

therhodeo

At first I thought you were talking about double tap and then had a good laugh and realized that no sane person would ever say "superior way to shift" about double tap and I reread your post.

zastolj

DT shifting really is underrated! Good enough for most cyclists. I've even done some racing with them recently and they work fine, as long as the parts are of good quality. Indexing is great, but not a must have with a 5-9 speed system.

robbyville

Yeah, I think you're bonkers

Don't get me wrong, when I used down tube shifters oh so long ago, I took pride at the skill it took to double shift on the fly and used to show this off to all my teenage friends, especially before indexed levers came out. But the moment I was able to get my hands on the first Shimano 600 "STI" (Shimano Total Integration for those young folks) levers (before someone coined the awesome term brifters) I scooped those suckers up. I think they cost me something like $350 cost price since I worked at a bike shop at the time. Somewhere around 1990 or thereabouts.

I see all these vintage bikes that I'm pretty sure had downtube shifting at that time but people have dressed them up in somewhat age appropriate componentry that generally includes brifters. I couldn't imagine going back much as I loved it.

Now... if you really want to help your shifting while climbing, get yourself the electronic group of your choice along with a remote bar top shifter oh mama that's nice!

banerjek

I've tried electronic shifting but between philosophical qualms and cheapskatedness, conversion will not happen soon.

The shifting itself is very nice when adjusted properly (which some riders appear not to do) -- for starters, autotrim and shifting rings is excellent. If I go down that path, it will first be on my LWB recumbent highracer as there's no way to get that kind of precision with such long cables and housings.

banerjek

Word

dmanthree

Been there, done that, never going back to that clunky location. May as well give up indexed shifting, as well and go back to straight friction levers.

robbyville

I was escorting a group of vets on recumbents at the local Patriot ride a few months ago. One had just had his built up and fitted with DI2. Never thought about the flex with long shifter cables until then. He absolutely loved it.

I'm always surprised when people don't have their electronic shifting adjusted properly, it's so easy to get it right, although to be fair I've never had to adjust it despite using different wheelsets in 4 years and recently I've had to make adjustments on the fly, seemingly when going from an older Ultegra cassette 11-32 to the wheels with a new Ultegra 11-30 cassette. New chain from this year as well. Been kinda strange, but the adjustment is as easy as turning the cable adjuster on a regular set up.

Going back to your DT eureka moment. I do still wax longingly about my old Suntour ratchet levers that cost me a grand total of about $20 in 1986!

mstateglfr 

My frames are on the larger side of things and reaching down that much is overrated. Its significantly more reach than on a 52 or 54cm frame, and the longer arms don’t offset the longer reach.

Something breaking every 20,000 miles doesn’t seem like much of an issue for most- that takes a lot of people a long time to accomplish.

I would use bar end shifters or Gevenalle shifters if I wanted to get away from STIs. And look at that- I do use both! Bar ends on my touring bike and Gevenalle on my gravel.
Shifts are fast, the front derailleur is infinitely trimmable, and hands stay on the bars.

banerjek

I have an old Campy equipped bike rocking a 52/42 with 10sp friction DT. I gotta admit I really like it -- no problems with bad shifts or noisy drivetrain. I've only had the bike 3 years and find it way easier than I remembered the old friction systems.

In all fairness, I ride that bike at a more relaxed pace which is reflected in the way I shift so indexing doesn't play the same role as it does on my other bikes. DT (especially friction) isn't great when standing or for making frequent minor adjustments in response to wind or terrain variations.

79pmooney

I've been on the path of "if it works, don't fix it" for the past several decades. Since DTs worked quite well when I raced 4 decades ago, I stayed with it. (I did dabble in SunTour Command on the Mooney for quite a few years but that bike drifted into near obscurity as I set up newer bikes and old-style race bikes or commuters with DT.)

The new curse is that the best, most available freewheels have ll this fancy shifting stuff on the teeth and promote shifts way too easily for good DT performance. (Shimano Ultra and Hyper Glide) The old SunTour FWs were a joy ot shift as is the Sachs I still have. Even SunRace is better (but their cog choices can be odd).

9-speed Campy cassette with a Campy Mirage RD and triple front and SunTour top-mounted DT shifters (those ones that sit in a box on top of the DT) is a dream to shift. We would have thought we had gone to heaven if we had anything remotely as good when I was racing. Fast, easy, smooth, no accidental shifts and the big dump or upshift is just as easy as going one cog.

It still works. And I am still not changing. (Just keeping my eyes open for a new 28t 7-speed FW with no shift assist.)

Ben

Bob Ross

The only circumstances under which I would even remotely consider DT shifters to be superior would be when it's so freakin' cold outside that you're forced to wear huge thick mittens that completely preclude being able to find the paddles on an STI lever.

That being said, my winter/foul weather bike has DT shifters.

But I've also never broken an STI lever -- nor even a shifter cable -- in over 60,000 miles of year-round road riding. So I don't quite get the appeal of the DT lever as "insurance" against mechanical catastrophe.

Hiro11

The simplicity and lack of friction in DT setups is compelling. However, I've found STI to be extremely reliable and shifting from the hoods is definitely superior.

Bandera

Still have DT controls on the Vitus 979, it was built w/ 7 cog indexing and raced that way for years.
It now sports 10 cog DT indexing and works predictably just fine as ever, although no longer ridden in pacelines.

FG, AW, friction/indexed DT, barcons or 'brifters it all works just fine for me.

-Bandera

trailangel

I'm still using DT.. one friction 7sp the other index 8sp.
I have a problem with pushing a brake lever to change a gear... not going to happen.
I guess the rest of you need to learn to ride a bike with no hands. Afraid?

DiabloScott

I have indexed downtube shifters on my foul weather bike - not because of hills, but because the brifters I had on there before would get gunked up in the rain and frozen in the cold. You can't beat DT for reliability.

dddd

I ride both systems, DT and STI, and can't say that either one is much of a problem.

STI has the ability to shift while out of the saddle, which became possible once Shimano had developed HG cogs/chains for mountainbikes. You wouldn't want any slippage while banging gears out of the saddle!

For racing, STI offers some competitive advantage, but shifting STI levers is not always ergonomic in my experience and can at times be awkward, as when riding in the drops while out of the saddle.

There is a technique to using DT shifters effectively, and friction shifting adds another dimension to this. But I enjoy a variety of spirited/competitive rides just as much regardless of which system I use.
I believe that I won a CX race due to my use of DT levers on one occasion (the only time that I raced that bike), since I had to commit to one gear choice before heading through a lengthy sand feature. I gapped the field right there, on the last lap, when I was the only rider to power through without dismounting.
Cross-shifting both levers to achieve a modest change in gearing when the front derailer is used is something that I find particularly entertaining, especially when conditions of rapidly-changing grade make it more challenging to do this more quickly.

With a single cross-shift, this old 5x2 DT friction setup provides seven sequential ratios over a decent range that aren't too gappy for my legs to handle while staying in touch with a motivated paceline. The Simplex changers move the HG-style 9s chain over 13-24t UG cogs and 36-52t steel rings with pretty amazing speed and accuracy, so my gearing and performance is not much left lacking.

exmechanic89

I prefer DT shifting over all others - it's simple, easy to use, lasts forever. Is lighter too, I would argue. I've also never cared for where the weight is shifted to with brifters - the worst place imo, right on the bars where you steer.

I always laugh when I hear some people post how hard DT shifters are to use, makes me think they probably shouldnt be riding a bike if they're that uncoordinated.

All that said though I understand the attraction of brifters, they're definitely safer.

Seattle Forrest

jamesdak 

I don't know that I find anyone system superior to the other when climbing. It comes down to which is tuned up properly and working well. I think the old friction mavic DT levers on my mid 80's Orbea shift magically over the current Campagnolo 10 speed cassette on the bike. I'm using an Ultegra 9 speed RD and I think the play on the jockey wheel really makes this work so well.

When climbing on any given bike of mine I may consider the gearing based on what MT I'm heading up, and the brakes, but I don't usually worry about if that bike has brifters or DT shifters.

79pmooney

Apparently you have never crashed and trashed your brake levers.

Ben

jon c. 

DT just seems more natural to me. I suppose because I took a few decades off, so it was what I was used to from back in the day. Tried STI when I started riding again, but DTs just feel better to me.

T Stew

I don't get to excited about one vs the other. I've used em all, doesn't matter much to me. It is somewhat satisfying to crest a big hill and reach down and drop from the biggest to the smallest rear cog in on swipe. That being said a few clicks on an ergo is hardly an inconvenience. Most of my stuff is 80's and while some have been updated to brifter I still have more DTs than anything else and like em just fine.

CliffordK

I still do friction shifting. I was out today with my stem shifters

But, the old bike has vintage Campy friction shifters.

I agree, I do like the quick throw of the lever to approximately where one wants it. Or, occasionally reaching down to feel about what gear one is in.

My Campy Brifters allow jumping about 3 cogs at a time, I think, but still, I'm often dumping quite a few gears at a time on my ascents, and going the other way on the descents. However, one difference I've noticed is that I tend to trim up or down one sprocket a lot more when using the brifters. With the DT shifters, I'll frequently pedal for quite some time without hardly changing gears, perhaps standing for small hills.

Of course, it is handy to be able to shift anytime one wishes with the brifters. I think even standing.

HTupolev

If I'm not hammering very hard, I sometimes shift out of the saddle with bar-end shifters too. But with downtube shifters where one hand has to leave the bars, it's too unstable. I suppose I could try upshifting with my knee...