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'Cyclist Killed by Cement Truck and 2 Other Deaths Spur "Emergency"'

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'Cyclist Killed by Cement Truck and 2 Other Deaths Spur "Emergency"'

Old 07-03-19, 03:51 PM
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Arthur Peabody
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'Cyclist Killed by Cement Truck and 2 Other Deaths Spur "Emergency"'

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/03/n...ng-deaths.html If the site blocks, you can right-click, save the file, read the saved copy.
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Old 07-03-19, 04:54 PM
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I can see closed door meetings...

"Look those bicyclists stopped riding the bus and subway and we lost their revenue now they want FREE bike lanes? How the heck do we tax that?"

"Take what you can, give nothing back" Was likely invented in politics, not pirates of the Caribbean. :-)
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Old 07-03-19, 06:01 PM
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Looks like the stupid ticketing bike riders spree after the messenger got killed backfired badly. That was so tone-deaf.
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Old 07-03-19, 07:23 PM
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Trucks only use one road in our city centre. There's a separate roadway for deliveries to the main shopping mall. And trucks only use bypasses throughout the rest of the city, which feed straight into our industrial estates. Retail estates have separate entrances for goods trucks.
We don't have trucks in our housing estates, office areas or shopping areas.

Yeah. Bypasses (freeways) and industrial estates. That's about the only place you'll find trucks.

What brings them onto the sort of city streets where they'd mix with cyclists?
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Old 07-03-19, 09:34 PM
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New York City is unique in how much money they have spent to improve bicycle safety. I noticed the mayor is interested in educating operators of large vehicles on driving around pedestrians and bicyclists. I believe educating bicyclists about how they operate around large vehicles should also be a priority.
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Old 07-03-19, 10:32 PM
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Cyclists need to stop at junctions, and the stop lines need to be further back than the ones for motor vehicles so that the cyclist can see before proceeding. Ideally the cyclist needs to vacate the corner and actively cross a side road instead of passing it. The idea that a cyclist would just carry on along a straight cycle lane at a junction (intersection, whatever), or stopping within the turning area of a trailer, is a recipe for getting swiped like that female doctor cyclist did the other year.
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Old 07-03-19, 10:42 PM
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Unfortunately many cyclists do ride in a way motorists deem as aggressively entitled, but then cyclists need to carry their speed to make up for weaknesses in other areas.

It's the same with trucks. A car driver will hold up a truck going downhill, then wonder why the truck's going so slow uphill. Thoughtless but also a lack of knowledge.

And people are hypocrites, and unnecessarily resentful. Moan cyclists are holding them up, but then moan when we use a pedestrian's green light or squeeze between traffic...

But understanding will only go so far. Vehicles are adrenaline catalysts. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Survival of the fittest. It'll never be foolproof. Take your headphones out, pay attention.

Last edited by MikeyMK; 07-03-19 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:41 AM
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Cyclists need to stop at junctions, and the stop lines need to be further back than the ones for motor vehicles so that the cyclist can see before proceeding. Ideally the cyclist needs to vacate the corner and actively cross a side road instead of passing it. The idea that a cyclist would just carry on along a straight cycle lane at a junction (intersection, whatever), or stopping within the turning area of a trailer, is a recipe for getting swiped like that female doctor cyclist did the other year.
A picture or a diagram to clarify what you mean would be nice.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:10 AM
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cement trucks around here drive above the speed limit. they have no chance of stopping in an emergency. we need a law enforcement crackdown on them
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Old 07-04-19, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
cement trucks around here drive above the speed limit. they have no chance of stopping in an emergency. we need a law enforcement crackdown on them
Reaction and stopping distances are indeed a fact - for everyone.

The one thing actually and clearly knowable here from the available video is that the cyclist was unfortunately riding a sidewalk at an unsafely vehicular speed and on the unexpected side of the road for their direction of travel. They would have been no more able to respond to a pedestrian than they were to the truck, the attempt at which had them already spilling off the bike before making contact.

Bicycling on the sidewalk is illegal in NYC. If one is going to do it anyway and claim that it is safer than the roadway, for that to be true it has to be ridden with slow caution and extreme awareness, not as if it were a reserved travel lane. Vehicles rarely manage to kill fit aware pedestrians when loudly approaching with clear momentum, most pedestrian deaths at intersections occur when vehicles turn from an unexpected direction.

Last edited by UniChris; 07-04-19 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:53 AM
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Cyclists need to be removed from the road and then ''actively cross a side road'' as a pedestrian would, this being a crude example the sort;




Cycle lanes need to be separate from the roads. If using a section of road is the only option, then there should be a kerb at least separating the two (and preferably a railing).




The solutions in my town are ideal, but engineered-in. They can't easily be added into densely-built establishment. But there's still something to be said for bridges and underpasses.

We use roundabouts wherever possible, as they're quicker and safer than traffic lights. Our cycleways mostly use underpasses but there are a few junctions using bridges. The underpasses are better though, safer and can be very compact, they really should be engineered into any new junctions built...

Underpasses:





Bridges:

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Old 07-04-19, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
Cyclists need to be removed from the road and then ''actively cross a side road'' as a pedestrian would
I don't have a figure for block size specific to that part of Brooklyn but in Manhattan there is a side street every 80 meters. Acting like a pedestrian is indeed safer, but defeats much of the potential benefit of being on a bike.

Limited separation from vehicle lanes can be good for everyday cyclists but substantial displacement from the vehicle lanes reduced mutual awareness of hook turn possibilities. Dedicated light cycles don't really work timing wise, in the few places they do exist cyclists complain about being ticketed for proceeding straight during the vehicle turn cycle.

Minimally interacting paths are of course great, but a bit like truck routes they don't go everywhere, to ride for utility rather than recreation purposes there still ends up having to be often lengthy distance along the everyday conflict-laden street grid.

Last edited by UniChris; 07-04-19 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 07-04-19, 07:47 AM
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I like "ceding" the area used for right turns when I'm stopped at a light, by stopping about 10 feet short. This is at intersections with no dedicated right turn lane.

I've seen too many people block the right turn area while waiting for lights to change, totally unconcerned about holding people up who want to turn right, vehicles that could otherwise filter to the front, make their turn and continue on.

It's not only the considerate thing to do, but I think it's also much safer, especially around large trucks.

Last edited by Lemond1985; 07-04-19 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:48 PM
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The cement truck owner said there are "too many bikes on the road".

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...4E9zigQh60rkxk
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Old 07-04-19, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
I like "ceding" the area used for right turns when I'm stopped at a light, by stopping about 10 feet short. This is at intersections with no dedicated right turn lane.

I've seen too many people block the right turn area while waiting for lights to change, totally unconcerned about holding people up who want to turn right, vehicles that could otherwise filter to the front, make their turn and continue on.

It's not only the considerate thing to do, but I think it's also much safer, especially around large trucks.
If I'm first to a one-lane intersection, I'm taking the lane, and don't care if it blocks the right turn on red. It's no more inconsiderate than what a driver would do in that situation. The cede 10 foot rule sounds really bad to me. If I do that and two other cars pull up before the light changes, do I now have to back up another 10 feet?

Generally, I'm filtering up to where all of the cars can see me.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:24 PM
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And if you are not first to the intersection? Take a spot in traffic and wait your turn? A few days ago, I did that, and a car came up from behind and went right around me, cut in front of me ... and then signalled to turn right.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
And if you are not first to the intersection? Take a spot in traffic and wait your turn? A few days ago, I did that, and a car came up from behind and went right around me, cut in front of me ... and then signalled to turn right.
Depends on the width of the road. Look, if someone is going to drive like that, anything you do is going to be wrong. What's to stop someone from swerving into your backside if you follow the cede 10 foot rule? I've certainly seen drivers do dumber.

i try not to have fixed rules that override my immediate sense of what I should do in the immediate situation. Mostly, I focus on being so visible in the intersection that someone really has to want to hit me if they don't avoid me. It's not my job to facilitate efficient right turns, and I will not sacrifice any margin of safety to do so.

Last edited by livedarklions; 07-04-19 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
And if you are not first to the intersection? Take a spot in traffic and wait your turn? A few days ago, I did that, and a car came up from behind and went right around me, cut in front of me ... and then signalled to turn right.
Thatís happened to me too, but I still do it and hold the lane until Iím clear on the other side. When Iím too old to sprint, I may change tactics. On the other hand, I may be even more of a passive-aggressive dink than I am now.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:43 PM
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I dunno, I just like to keep drivers happy, when I can. Personality flaw I guess, evolution should have weeded me out.

Seriously though, I make it habit not to make enemies of people who could kill me instantly with one stomp on the accelerator. Call me paranoid, but it has worked so far.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:45 PM
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As evolution shows us, multiple survival strategies can be successful.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
I dunno, I just like to keep drivers happy, when I can. Personality flaw I guess, evolution should have weeded me out.

Seriously though, I make it habit not to make enemies of people who could kill me instantly with one stomp on the accelerator. Call me paranoid, but it has worked so far.

I don't think hiding off to the side is doing drivers any favors. I'm fast enough that I get out of their way as soon as the light turns green. Right turn on red if there's no turn lane is a luxury you get by luck, it's not a right. I can't be bothered to appease people who ignore basic drivers ed.
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Old 07-04-19, 07:04 PM
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Yeah well, I don't always come to a complete stop at stop signs when on my bike, so I guess I'm a scofflaw too. Just like I don't take up any more of the road than I need, I also don't block people when I can let them past me with a modicum of effort. Creates a little goodwill for the sport, I tell myself.

I'm just trying to make up for the legions of human salmon, texting on bikes and darting wildly through traffic, who give us all a bad name. Which as we all know is futile, since they are 90% of the biking public these days, but I try anyway.
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Old 07-10-19, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
Cyclists need to stop at junctions, and the stop lines need to be further back than the ones for motor vehicles so that the cyclist can see before proceeding. Ideally the cyclist needs to vacate the corner and actively cross a side road instead of passing it. The idea that a cyclist would just carry on along a straight cycle lane at a junction (intersection, whatever), or stopping within the turning area of a trailer, is a recipe for getting swiped like that female doctor cyclist did the other year.
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
I like "ceding" the area used for right turns when I'm stopped at a light, by stopping about 10 feet short. This is at intersections with no dedicated right turn lane.
Ok, we all know that right turns are a problem.

One thing to keep in mind. If I was driving a pickup, and legally going straight, then nobody would care if I was blocking the lane waiting for the light to change.

If it is a turn-only lane, then I'll often move left to the first lane going in the direction I'm wishing to go, or perhaps on occasion "lane split" allowing turning cars to my right, sometimes wave them forward.

If it is a straight/turn lane, I tend to move as far forward as possible so I'll be "seen".

I don't have a problem with a car doing a right on red around me, and I'll be close enough to the curb that that should technically be possible.

But, I don't want a truck (or even a pickup) dragging a trailer behind to think right on red is any way acceptable.

And, that should be part of the driver's training. PATIENCE.

Of course, it may also depend on the environment. If it is a lone cyclist, then the car should be able to simply wait.

If there is a steady stream of cyclists, then it may be that it is better for a vehicle to get through the turn while the cyclists aren't moving.
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Old 07-12-19, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Arthur P*****y View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/03/n...ng-deaths.html If the site blocks, you can right-click, save the file, read the saved copy.
You read that and couldn't muster a comment?
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Old 07-12-19, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
You read that and couldn't muster a comment?
That's a fair point, one I generally agree with, but in this case, I didn't really need to know anything that wasn't spelled out in the title, "Cyclist killed by cement truck".
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