Buying expensive bikes and parts...
#251
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One thing that never came up during this discussion, well not to any depth, is components. For example, the difference in price between Ultegra and Dura Ace is pretty steep, yet the performance difference is very small, and the Ultegra might be more durable. In the MTB world, it is a little different. XTR brakes really are worth every penny via their performance is that good. But, few if any could tell XTR cranks from XT cranks. And, XTR shifting is nicer than XT shifting, and people can then battle between want and need with the shifting. I do not know the Campy line well enough to make comparisons, heck I might not have even abbreviated it correctly.
So, what about components, price versus value and us old guys who have enough spare change that the extra cost is not the limiting factor (but, instead, our habits or thoughts are the limiting factor).
So, what about components, price versus value and us old guys who have enough spare change that the extra cost is not the limiting factor (but, instead, our habits or thoughts are the limiting factor).
Last edited by ltxi; 12-27-15 at 08:55 PM.
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Good question. To me, cycling is one of my few passions/hobbies, and my spending decisions are made on the basis of what makes me happy. Fortunately my job is another thing I enjoy so I continue to work while others think about retirement. That gives me the income to do that without sacrificing my family's well being. So I continue to spend on the higher end cycling stuff.
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Good question. To me, cycling is one of my few passions/hobbies, and my spending decisions are made on the basis of what makes me happy. Fortunately my job is another thing I enjoy so I continue to work while others think about retirement. That gives me the income to do that without sacrificing my family's well being. So I continue to spend on the higher end cycling stuff.
Me too on both counts. I will spend on whatever makes me happy, and I plan to work until the day I die. Hopefully I will can be healthy enough to be able to work, as well as have steady work well into the future so I can always afford the Next-Gen Dura Aces and XTRs until the day I die.
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Being able to afford any bike part might not be that uncommon in this age group, but I do not believe some of the choices are worth it. I really like Ultegra, and do not see any reason to buy Dura Ace. But, I am not a road bike guy by nature. As I wrote above, I do not know if I would go full XTR. Having an all matching group is not that important to me. I would only buy Campy if building an Italian bike. So, the extra work or extra money is not changing that for me. I try to pick by what is likely to max out my enjoyment and not be a waste.
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Being able to afford any bike part might not be that uncommon in this age group, but I do not believe some of the choices are worth it. I really like Ultegra, and do not see any reason to buy Dura Ace. But, I am not a road bike guy by nature. As I wrote above, I do not know if I would go full XTR. Having an all matching group is not that important to me. I would only buy Campy if building an Italian bike. So, the extra work or extra money is not changing that for me. I try to pick by what is likely to max out my enjoyment and not be a waste.
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To me all hobbies are suppose to cost money and you should spend as much as your budget allows to enjoy the hobby. If you see Dura Ace or XTR as wasting money, then that means it is wasting money (to you). To me, as good as Ultegra and XT is, they just don't have the bling factor and sweet finishing that Dura-Ace and XTR have. I have never regretted buying Dura-Ace and XTR.
So, no bling to be seen.
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I am not too much into bling, but I do find some part better looking than others. Like I mentioned above, I would always go XTR for brakes, between XT and XTR. For shifting, I am running SRAM, because they have the best 1x11 set-up, but XO1, instead of XX1. I just cannot see the extra value. Maybe it is more a MTBer thing, given it will all be covered in mud.
So, no bling to be seen.
So, no bling to be seen.
Mtn Bikes are all about the bling! Chris King or I9 hubs, Fox Racing Shox, Carbon bars, etc, etc. It's all personal taste really. I don't buy XTR or Dura Ace all the time, I am just saying I never regret it when I do buy top.
I am running XT for brakes on my Nomad, and want to try XTR someday, but the XT's are good enough for me. I too also have X01 for shifters, and do NOT feel the need to upgrade.
#258
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I support your purchases 100%. It's all personal preference and no one should tell any of us what we need or don't need.
Mtn Bikes are all about the bling! Chris King or I9 hubs, Fox Racing Shox, Carbon bars, etc, etc. It's all personal taste really. I don't buy XTR or Dura Ace all the time, I am just saying I never regret it when I do buy top.
I am running XT for brakes on my Nomad, and want to try XTR someday, but the XT's are good enough for me. I too also have X01 for shifters, and do NOT feel the need to upgrade.
Mtn Bikes are all about the bling! Chris King or I9 hubs, Fox Racing Shox, Carbon bars, etc, etc. It's all personal taste really. I don't buy XTR or Dura Ace all the time, I am just saying I never regret it when I do buy top.
I am running XT for brakes on my Nomad, and want to try XTR someday, but the XT's are good enough for me. I too also have X01 for shifters, and do NOT feel the need to upgrade.
We will have to disagree about MTBs and bling, though. Luckily, we do not need to agree
I doubt I would regret full XTR or Dura Ace, I just make the choices based on what makes sense to me. For example, I have looked at Rolex watches for years. But, the difference between Rolex and Raymond Weil left about $5,000 in my investment account. That $5,000 will hopefully be $15,000 or more when I retire.
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We all have our individual priorities and values.
I "should" be "expensive watch guy" who wears a Rolex or something along those lines to "fit in" professionally.
If it doesn't give me weather functions, take my heart rate, integrate with fitness apps, and go in water and mud I'm not wearing it.
I also ditched dress shoes for the most part. Just don't care. I wear mainly leather hiking boots with orthotic insoles.
I am beyond caring about fitting in. I do what I like.
I "should" be "expensive watch guy" who wears a Rolex or something along those lines to "fit in" professionally.
If it doesn't give me weather functions, take my heart rate, integrate with fitness apps, and go in water and mud I'm not wearing it.
I also ditched dress shoes for the most part. Just don't care. I wear mainly leather hiking boots with orthotic insoles.
I am beyond caring about fitting in. I do what I like.
Last edited by TriDanny47; 12-28-15 at 05:32 AM.
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I know I was intrigued enough by the reverence Campagnolo is shown in road bike circles to make my 2nd serious road bike Super Record EPS. I just got it so have not been on it yet except for a brief test ride at the shop at pickup then another when I got it home - nor do I intend to until spring - I was told quite seriously by more than one person NOT to expose it to road salt - and it looks like our stretch of no snow/no ice is going to end. I'm not too keen on riding any bike with narrow slick tires any time I could encounter ice anyway - happy to ride my hybrid and fat bike until April.
In the meantime - it can function as artwork!
In the meantime - it can function as artwork!
It sounds like your advice on not riding the bike is from people with OCD. If road salt caused damage, bikes wouldn't last. By the time it really caused parts to wear out, assuming you take reasonable care, you'll be 30 years older.
Of more concern I think is that road salt is abrasive, and can more effectively damage the drive train that way. And since the salt is used to melt snow and ice, it produces standing salt-water containing road grime, and very often even more abrasive sand, that can be thrown up into the drive train. I’m not particularly inclined to wash my road bike that I use so frequently for commuting, and for which I don’t have easy facilities (in an urban condo).
Earlier this year I posted to a Winter Cycling thread, ”Road Bike Up-Keep”
I have a variant question about riding my pristine carbon fiber bike in winter. Obviously if riding on wet roads with salt, it will be flung into the drive train. But what about on dry roads with caked salt? Would “salt dust” contaminate the drive train significantly? If I were to ride, I would avoid visible salt patches. I realize there may well not be a definitive answer, but "whaddya tink"?
This winter I have ridden my CF bike up to January 1, and it looks like it may be relatively mild (for precipitation), with increased dry road days [in February and March we had record snowfall].
I do have a beater mountain bike with fenders and studded tires otherwise for winter riding.
This winter I have ridden my CF bike up to January 1, and it looks like it may be relatively mild (for precipitation), with increased dry road days [in February and March we had record snowfall].
I do have a beater mountain bike with fenders and studded tires otherwise for winter riding.
Rust never sleeps, and salt is the enemy. The effects of moisture alone can be mitigated with proper lubrication, but salt eat parts and can wreak all kinds of havoc.
So obviously keeping it as clean as you can is important, take out every bolt and grease the crap out of it.Grease and lube everything often. Make sure you remove and grease your seatpost often! Salt spray finds it's way down into it and seizes them up.(not on CF frames) I just use standard teflon grease, and I use Boeshield T-9 spray lube for winter. I over lubricate most everything. I'd rather clean dirty lube off than try to remove rust or a stuck seat post. Chains do get rusty easily, much of it is light surface rust that cleans off ok if you keep on it. But I expect that and I replace my chain every spring on my winter commuter.
It's the cost of doing business if you want to keep your bike in good shape. In the meantime save your money for a winter beater, it can be less costly in the long run.
So obviously keeping it as clean as you can is important, take out every bolt and grease the crap out of it.Grease and lube everything often. Make sure you remove and grease your seatpost often! Salt spray finds it's way down into it and seizes them up.(not on CF frames) I just use standard teflon grease, and I use Boeshield T-9 spray lube for winter. I over lubricate most everything. I'd rather clean dirty lube off than try to remove rust or a stuck seat post. Chains do get rusty easily, much of it is light surface rust that cleans off ok if you keep on it. But I expect that and I replace my chain every spring on my winter commuter.
It's the cost of doing business if you want to keep your bike in good shape. In the meantime save your money for a winter beater, it can be less costly in the long run.
… Last year, I thought about a second lesser quality road bike to ride on dry, but salted roads... My wife nixed the idea of three bikes in the condo…The reason I want a second tier, (but not crappy) road bike is for a nicer ride, without too much remorse about messing it up.
I started to look at second tier road bikes. My trusted mechanic suggested an aluminum BMC costing about $1500, with upgraded components and 25 C tires. That would then become a year-round beater/rain bike, and the mountain bike would become the most severe winter ride. I think if I promised to store the carbon fiber bike away during the winter, and mountain bike during the nice weather, my wife might allow that...
I started to look at second tier road bikes. My trusted mechanic suggested an aluminum BMC costing about $1500, with upgraded components and 25 C tires. That would then become a year-round beater/rain bike, and the mountain bike would become the most severe winter ride. I think if I promised to store the carbon fiber bike away during the winter, and mountain bike during the nice weather, my wife might allow that...
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-28-15 at 11:36 AM.
#261
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As owner of an expensive CF bike myself, I side with @TriDanny47, his “serious" people, and my trusted mechanic. IIRC from another thread, TD47 may be from my native state of Michigan, with similar winters to Boston. I would think that road salt must be corrosive, and while it might not wear out parts for 30 years, it may strip away the final metallic finish on the aluminum parts, and perhaps dull the paint on the CF, if only for aesthetics, for what that is worth.
Of more concern I think is that road salt is abrasive, and can more effectively damage the drive train that way. And since the salt is used to melt snow and ice, it produces standing water containing road grime, and very often even more abrasive sand, that can be thrown up into the drive train. I’m not particularly inclined to wash my road bike that I use so frequently for commuting, and for which I don’t have easy facilities (in an urban condo).
Earlier this year I posted to a Winter Cycling thread, ” Road Bike Up-Keep”
Because the beater bike is a drudge to ride, and even as one who enjoys the conspicuous consumption of an expensive bike ,
Of more concern I think is that road salt is abrasive, and can more effectively damage the drive train that way. And since the salt is used to melt snow and ice, it produces standing water containing road grime, and very often even more abrasive sand, that can be thrown up into the drive train. I’m not particularly inclined to wash my road bike that I use so frequently for commuting, and for which I don’t have easy facilities (in an urban condo).
Earlier this year I posted to a Winter Cycling thread, ” Road Bike Up-Keep”
Because the beater bike is a drudge to ride, and even as one who enjoys the conspicuous consumption of an expensive bike ,
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I would rather replace drivetrain parts as the grime ruins them than ride a "crappy" bike or "beater." There is a lot of grime from my commute and living in a townhouse I just do not have great facilities for maintainance. My current set-up has about 2,000 miles on it since August and the drivetrain is doing just fine. If I can get 5,000 per chain and cassette in these conditions I will be happy with this.
Road salt does attack drivetrains, but washing it off and relubing regularly limits the effect. Rust is less of a problem than people seem to imagine. I've ridden steel bikes in the rainy UK all my life, they last a lifetime with minimal maintenance.
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Much Respect to all you guys that commute on bicycles in sub-freezing weather with road salt and all! At this point in my life, I would do it too... just need to find a good paying job that is within 10 miles of me (and with good bike routes)
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What was paid is forgotten once that wind is in your face. Bikes are all good.
I tend to appreciate older ones. Mainly for aesthetics and history. Personal and otherwise.
I tend to appreciate older ones. Mainly for aesthetics and history. Personal and otherwise.
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Funny you mention Chris King. I am so sick of seeing his parts on bikes that I went with Hope hubs on my new bike. His parts are great, but I wanted something different. I run XT brakes on my commuter, because I want some extra movement before engagement (very long, steep and wet hills in which the XT are a better choice). But, for the MTB XTRs or Guide RSCs are worth every penny.
We will have to disagree about MTBs and bling, though. Luckily, we do not need to agree
I doubt I would regret full XTR or Dura Ace, I just make the choices based on what makes sense to me. For example, I have looked at Rolex watches for years. But, the difference between Rolex and Raymond Weil left about $5,000 in my investment account. That $5,000 will hopefully be $15,000 or more when I retire.
We will have to disagree about MTBs and bling, though. Luckily, we do not need to agree
I doubt I would regret full XTR or Dura Ace, I just make the choices based on what makes sense to me. For example, I have looked at Rolex watches for years. But, the difference between Rolex and Raymond Weil left about $5,000 in my investment account. That $5,000 will hopefully be $15,000 or more when I retire.
#266
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Not in the least. They are right for me. My point is that there are choices that we make regarding what we find valuable. I believe I have gotten very good at buying for me, in large part from learning from my many mistakes in the past. There has been waste over the years, and I try to figure out, each time, where I went wrong, hoping not to make that mistake again. I have enough money nowadays that a bad choice is not a big deal money wise, but bugs the hell out of me.
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Not in the least. They are right for me. My point is that there are choices that we make regarding what we find valuable. I believe I have gotten very good at buying for me, in large part from learning from my many mistakes in the past. There has been waste over the years, and I try to figure out, each time, where I went wrong, hoping not to make that mistake again. I have enough money nowadays that a bad choice is not a big deal money wise, but bugs the hell out of me.
I should post my Lightspeed Mtn Bike of 15 years ago that I still have now. XTR, Chris King, Avid Arch Supremes, and Easton Carbon.... it was bling back then! and to me it is still bling now, and I have no regrets of any part on that bike.
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This goes well with the article in the OP, buy right up front and the fact you keep it saves money over time (even if it started out expensive).
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This is my 2000 Pisgah, with Chris King Hubs (Called Chris King "Classics" now, but back then they were just called Chris King), Avid Arch Supreme Brakes (more expensive than Disc Brakes), Avid Ultimate Levers, Time ATAC Carbon/Ti, XTR Fr and Rr Der, and the best XTR Cranks ever made.
Last edited by ErichVonCartman; 12-28-15 at 08:05 PM.
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Intense Tracer was my dream bike for a lot of years.
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That Intense of mine you see in the Pic, was also a 2000 bike.. I went all out on that too. CK Disco Hubs and Hope Disc Brakes. The Hopes are so good! 15 years later I have never even bled them and they still look beautiful and perform great!
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I say again, more money gets better equipment up to a point that is usually mid point. After that you get very little increase in performance or bang for the buck. After that mid point you are mainly buying name and hype.
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It depends on what you mean by performance. By going high end over mid range my road bike has electronic shifting, weighs 3 or 4 lbs or so less, has deep aero wheels with smooth and quick tires, and rides just like I want it. Plus I enjoy seeing it and riding it. It's the same with cars, watches, household furnishes, and so one. What we need for satisfactory functionality versus what we want can be substantially different. I've got an SUV that I use to transport my dog and carry things. It's functional. But it has a top spped of 176 and handles like a quick sports car. I rarely use it to its potential but I enjoy it.
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Those little increases are very important to some people and not the least bit important to others. And, in many cases, those decisions (in this age group) are made independently of whether or not there is any financial impact to the buyer. Plus, if those little increases, or that little bit of status, make the individual want to keep the bike longer it could be a wise financial decision (given used bikes hold very little value in relationship to purchase price).
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Those little increases are very important to some people and not the least bit important to others. And, in many cases, those decisions (in this age group) are made independently of whether or not there is any financial impact to the buyer. Plus, if those little increases, or that little bit of status, make the individual want to keep the bike longer it could be a wise financial decision (given used bikes hold very little value in relationship to purchase price).
For example, I ride a flat-bar road bike (often derisively referred to on these boards as a "hybrid"). I can't sensibly afford it given other priorities, but if I could I wouldn't hesitate for one minute to order a custom-designed and built flat-bar road bike for myself, and build it up with the very best components/wheels. I'd love to do that, and couldn't give a rat's bottom whether anyone on here thinks that's either stupid and/or a waste of money -- either because " ... high-end stuff is a waste of money ..." or because such a bicycle would not be " ... a 'real' road bike ...".
That said, the more important question is: will this post get this thread to twelve pages?