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Spindle length with different crank

Old 01-30-20, 06:54 AM
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Spindle length with different crank

On my vintage 1983 Trek, I am planning to change the crank. It is a 144bcd Superbe that I plan to replace with a vintage 110bcd Sugino Super Maxy so I can get some lower gearing. Both are doubles, so would I just put it on and see if the chainline is good? Would it be likely that the spindle that is in there that I just serviced should match up?

A followup question regarding chain rings. I see Shimano/Sram chainrings in 34/110 lots cheaper than Sugino. Are these compatible on the Sugino Super Maxy? Friction shift on this vintage bike.

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Old 01-30-20, 08:26 AM
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Chances are it will be close enough to work. Make sure the Super Maxy is in good shape; unlike the forged one-piece Superbe crank, the Super Maxy is a much cheaper two-piece swaged unit, and those sometimes come loose at the swaged joint. If you can find a Mighty Tour crank instead, those also use 110mm BCD rings but have a one piece forged arm like the Superbe you're replacing.

And yes, any 110mm ring will mount on a 110mm arm. With friction shifting you don't really need modern ramps and pins, but they don't hurt if the rings you choose have them.
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Old 01-30-20, 09:32 AM
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homework/

Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
On my vintage 1983 Trek, I am planning to change the crank. It is a 144bcd Superbe that I plan to replace with a vintage 110bcd Sugino Super Maxy so I can get some lower gearing. Both are doubles, so would I just put it on and see if the chainline is good?
read this first; https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html
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Old 01-30-20, 10:01 AM
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My general philosophy is that if I already own parts I'll test fit almost anything and see what else, if anything, I need to make it work. If I'm BUYING parts, I'm going to hold out for parts that I'm pretty sure are going to work together.

My rule of thumb with cranksets is: the older the crankset, the longer BB spindle needed. I'm thinking that Super May and Superbe are around the same age bracket so I'd guess you have a real good shot for it to work.
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Old 01-30-20, 01:19 PM
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Check to be sure the spindle flats are the same angle.

Cheers
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Old 01-30-20, 08:41 PM
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Thanks all

Thanks for the info folks. The Maxy seems solid, so I will give it a try when I get some time. That Mighty Tour is pricey for used ones. I do like the looks of these older Sugino cranks with the flutes in the arms and the cutouts in the spider arms too.
i see Sugino rings are quite pricey too, so I may try a cheaper Shimano style one. Lower gearing will be nicer at my 62 years of age.
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Old 01-31-20, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
i see Sugino rings are quite pricey too, so I may try a cheaper Shimano style one. Lower gearing will be nicer at my 62 years of age.
Your Maxi isn't a 3-arm?
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Old 01-31-20, 11:27 AM
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if you don't find what your looking for you might want to visit here,4/25-26/2020 ;https://www.lmb.org/ride-calendar/an...d-swap-meet-2/

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Old 02-01-20, 04:31 AM
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5 arm

Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Your Maxi isn't a 3-arm?
Bought from small local bike shop for cheap. Pic at this thread;

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
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Old 02-01-20, 07:57 AM
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nice
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Old 02-01-20, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by '02 nrs View Post
if you don't find what your looking for you might want to visit here;Ann Arbor Classic Bicycle Show
I'm guessing this year it will be April 25, 2020.
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Old 02-01-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
Bought from small local bike shop for cheap. Pic at this thread;

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...crank-arm.html
I may have just dated myself. I had a 3-arm Maxi but that was around 45 years ago.
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Old 02-01-20, 03:34 PM
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You are trying to cost me some money

Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I'm guessing this year it will be April 25, 2020.
Actually I saw that advertised last fall I believe but didn’t go. I may go in April. I am only 50 miles away.
It sounds dangerous to my wallet and I don’t have my other bikes all sorted yet. Oh well.
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Old 02-02-20, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I may have just dated myself. I had a 3-arm Maxi but that was around 45 years ago.
Maybe that's the difference between a Maxy and a Super Maxy? :shrug:
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Old 02-02-20, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
I may have just dated myself. I had a 3-arm Maxi but that was around 45 years ago.
Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Maybe that's the difference between a Maxy and a Super Maxy? :shrug:
There were multiple variations of "Maxy" cranks. Some were 3-arm, some were 5-arm. Some were 116mm BCD, some were 110mm BCD, some were 144mm BCD. Some had the outer ring permanently swaged to the arm, some had a separate spider swaged to the arm so both rings could be removed. I never could figure out why some got the "Super" designation.
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Old 02-02-20, 05:47 PM
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Doesn’t match up

Well, a different spindle will be in order at least. It turns out that this first gen Superbe is closer to a campy or SIS taper. The Maxy crank also has its inner taper starting further away from the BB. The spindle is marked Superbe 68 W and is 113mm. I will probably take both cranks to the LBS to see how close they can match it up.

Can I keep my same cups and bearings and just purchase a new spindle? I wouldn’t have to mess with the fixed cup that way. I suppose the proper way is to get the Park BB tool and remove the fixed cup too and have all new parts.That fixed cup has been in there since 1983, so the LBS may be needed for removal. It turns out that the Superbe is an odd duck.
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Old 02-02-20, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
I wouldn’t have to mess with the fixed cup that way. I suppose the proper way is to get the Park BB tool and remove the fixed cup too and have all new parts.That fixed cup has been in there since 1983, .
"Fixed cup" is an apt name.
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Old 02-02-20, 09:20 PM
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IIRC Superbe, like the Mighty Comp that proceeded it, used the Campy taper spec. Unlike most all other Sugino and Shimano cranks back then and since. If the incorrect spindle/arm combo is used the arm might fit too far up the taper and bottom out past the tapers or the arm might not fit over the spindle enough and the tapered hole could become "damaged". Andy
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Old 02-02-20, 09:29 PM
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Yep, that is what I found. The taper is indeed different. The super Maxy sprocket side crank also looks like it is”dished” for lack of a better word further out from the bottom bracket as compared to the Superbe also. This difference looks to be 4-5 mm also plus the matter of the different tapers. Perhaps the co-op has some spindles I could try and keep my bearings and cups. Learning
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Old 02-03-20, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
Yep, that is what I found. The taper is indeed different. The super Maxy sprocket side crank also looks like it is”dished” for lack of a better word further out from the bottom bracket as compared to the Superbe also. This difference looks to be 4-5 mm also plus the matter of the different tapers. Perhaps the co-op has some spindles I could try and keep my bearings and cups. Learning
A basic nutted mountain bike triple spindal should work fine with your cups and maxy crank, but 2x check the width of bearing tracks. I Think you are better replacing with solid cranks preferably forged, and using your current bb as-is.
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Old 02-03-20, 11:49 AM
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Need new spindle either way

Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
A basic nutted mountain bike triple spindal should work fine with your cups and maxy crank, but 2x check the width of bearing tracks. I Think you are better replacing with solid cranks preferably forged, and using your current bb as-is.
I will need a different spindle whatever I do so as to have the JIS taper versus the Campy/SIS taper that the Superbe 68W spindle has. I will take my parts to the co-op to match up as close as I can. Surely used spindles there will only be a couple dollars, so it won't hurt to try. The Superbe BB parts are dripping with quality and the bearing tracks in the cups are nearly new looking. The pressed together Maxy was very cheap at the co-op, and I like its looks, so I will try that first. I already have a 34 tooth sprocket ordered to go with a 46 tooth one from the co-op so I can get some old man gearing with a double. I believe they have a couple triple cranks there too, so I may get one too in case the Maxy falls apart.
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Old 02-04-20, 10:38 AM
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Bike co-op spindles

Okay, maybe narrowed the size down for the Suer Maxy with the JIS taper vs the Campy taper on the Superbe. I went to the co-op again and picked up several spindles for the costly sum of $1 each. It seems that the 3N will be a good fit. Unfortunately the one I got has 1 small pit in the NDS. I was looking at the style that take a bolt. I was thinking of going back and digging through them again looking at the ones with nutted ends. Is there any real difference?

I also see new Sunlite branded ones on eBay for $9 delivered. Are these recommended, or considered cheap and inferior?
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Old 02-04-20, 11:54 AM
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If you're going to spend "real" money, you might just want to go cartridge.
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Old 02-04-20, 04:24 PM
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Too sensible

Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
If you're going to spend "real" money, you might just want to go cartridge.
That would just be too sensible. It would make sense to buy newer bikes too I guess, but then I would have to ride them more than work on them. What would I do in the winter then? Actually I enjoy the accomplishment of setting up a fine mechanical piece of equipment.
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