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If You Were Going to Huret, Would it be Allvit or Svelto?

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If You Were Going to Huret, Would it be Allvit or Svelto?

Old 01-19-20, 12:51 PM
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If You Were Going to Huret, Would it be Allvit or Svelto?

I have two choices and I'm leaning toward the Svelto. Convince me one way or the other. BTW this is going on an old Gitane, and I don't want to hear about SunTour or Shimano.
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Old 01-19-20, 01:15 PM
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Svelto, definitely. I'm unapologetic about how many Alvits and Schwinn approved derailleurs I have scrapped.

Well, I would get a shimano and sharpie in "Huret" on the outer parallelogram plate, but you discounted that possibility.
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Old 01-19-20, 01:28 PM
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Svelto!!
It is rarer than the Alvit, lighter than the Alvit, works about the same as an Alvit, and not outrageously priced.
Bonus points, if you can find a set of red pulleys from an Alvit to jazz it up with! I did the same for a Jubilee.
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Old 01-19-20, 02:16 PM
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I have one bike with each; havenít ridden either a whole lot but they shifted pretty much the same to me....however the allvit is heavy and has looks only itís mother could love; svelto looks half decent.
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Old 01-19-20, 03:07 PM
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Definitely Svelto. Huret Allvit was a decent derailleur in it's day - however, it's day was 1962-65. Biggest advantage to the mechanism is that it was built to take a lot of abuse from riders who had no idea how to care for an adult bicycle. Which is why they were a natural for Schwinn.
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Old 01-19-20, 04:15 PM
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...
...I used an Allvit for a while on a Moto Gran Jubilee that someone had swiped the Jubilee derailleur from before I got it. Worked fine, but whenever I had to look at it, it bothered me. So I finally spent 50 bucks on a Jubilee someone had for sale. It also works fine. If I already had Huret Allvit in my hand, I'd probably use that until something better came along.
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Old 01-19-20, 04:40 PM
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I vote for the Allvit, just because I always root for the underdog. There's also something oddly appealing about these derailleurs.
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Old 01-19-20, 05:01 PM
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My first road bike had an Allvit, and maybe it was due to pilot error, but I seemed to break a lot of gearshift cables with it. I got spoiled first with an old Campag. Gran Sport and then with a series of SunTours, which made everything else feel sick by comparison.
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Old 01-19-20, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
Definitely Svelto. Huret Allvit was a decent derailleur in it's day - however, it's day was 1962-65.
I'm going to stick up for the unloved Allvit. Its day goes back to 1958 BTW, although those first Allvits looked different, didn't have that cover that hid the parallelogram. Here's the '58:


What I like about it is mostly theoretical -- the upper pulley goes down as the mech swings in towards low gear, where most other parallelograms swing up as they move in -- the opposite of what you want, for the jockey wheel to follow the shape of the freewheel and maintain a constant gap from the sprockets. Other mechs have different ways of achieving this, such as the upper pulley floating downward by various means even though the parallelogram is swinging up. DuoPar, Mountech, Super Plate were some of the ways that come to mind. But the Svelto had none of those, so its pulley swings up as it goes in. Thus it has to start out rather far away from the sprockets, and this also limits the largest sprocket it can clear. My Allvit shifts easily to a 32t and could probably clear a 34t (tho I haven't tried). Here's Rebour's explanation of the benefit of the Allvit:

The big heavy main body of the Allvit is needed because the fixed parallelogram pivots are at the bottom, and the free moving pivots are at the top. This is the opposite of every other mech ever made, to the best of my knowledge. No one ever copied it.

The Svelto was made as a cheaper alternative, for OEMs who didn't want to spring for the relatively pricey Allvit! I know this is hard to imagine nowadays, but the Allvit was actually kinda high-end, as touring mechs go. (Campy was not their competition.) Rene Herse among others spec'd the Allvit for ultimate cost-no-object constructeur bikes because for a while there ('60s), it was the best derailleur in the world for that sort of bike.

Allvit pros: shifts better, rebuildable.
Cons: needs to be rebuilt! The pivots get gummed up and need to be cleaned and oiled now and then, and many Allvits have bent parallelogram arms that bind up the action. When I overhauled the one on my Schwinn Super Sport, I straightened the bent arms, lubed and properly adjusted the pivots, and I couldn't believe the difference, the thing shifts really well now.

Oh yeah I also bent the parallelogram-return spring in the direction that increases the spring preload, so it shifts down to the small sprocket with more authority. Balky shifts into high gear was one of the common complaints about the Allvit, especially after it accumulated a bit of grit in the pivots. They should have made the spring stronger to begin with, but the mod I did on mine fixed that.

I know, who rebuilds an Allvit?? No one, right? Just throw it away and put on a Suntour, everyone sez. I only did it because I'm stubborn, and I kinda liked doing it.

Mark B in Seattle
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Old 01-19-20, 07:41 PM
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Who can argue with tech drawings from Mark B?

I have a few miles on a Svelto (residing on a Frejus), and itís OK for old and slow and looks nice. My Sachs&Huret experiences have been better, but never owned Allvit.


best pic I got quick

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Old 01-20-20, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
I have a few miles on a Svelto (residing on a Frejus), and itís OK for old and slow and looks nice.
That does look nicer than I remembered it. They also made a cheaper Svelto with dull plating, and that's what I was remembering. I forgot how nice the polished chrome one looks.
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Old 01-20-20, 07:19 AM
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the Allvit has a much larger capacity due the linkage. The factory specs for the Svelto topped out at a 22 or 24T large cog, depending on the version, and only had a 26-28T chain wrap capacity. It was more of a competition model, spec'd on bicycles with a relatively narrow gear range. The Allvit could handle up to a 30T large cog and had a 34T chain wrap capacity. For some riders, that 6-8T extra capacity could be a deciding factor.

However, I agree with everything else. The Allvit was heavier and could require regular maintenance to keep the pivots tight. While the integral bash guard could pack the parallelogram with dirt, it also probably saved the derailleur innumerable times on entry level, boom era bicycles. The Allvit had the superior shifting. The Svelto was light by comparison and required less maintenance but did not shift as well. It clearly showed its influence on the later and more famous Jubilee, which is what I consider to be its main claim to fame.
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Old 01-20-20, 08:22 AM
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My first roadie had the Alvit. It was on a ‘72 Motobecane Mirage I’d bought with busboy wages. It shifted admirably being it wasn’t suntour or shimano. My friends gaspipe Huffy’s had Shimano RD’s. Not me. I had a French bike.
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Old 01-20-20, 08:30 AM
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Not offered as a choice, but for functionally this SachsHuret Rival works well on my AD Olympian.



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Old 01-20-20, 11:29 AM
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Many great comments here. @bulgie Thanks for your support for the Allvit. It will go on one of my two projects, I just need to check the tooth count on the freewheels. I do like the minimalist look of the Svelto, but there is no point in installing it where it would fail to be reliable.
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Old 01-20-20, 01:34 PM
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None other than Yellow Jersey's Andy Muzi is on record for the Svelto:

https://www.cyclingforums.com/thread...y-good.144849/
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Old 01-20-20, 02:32 PM
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Thanks John.
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Old 01-20-20, 03:47 PM
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Svelto definitely. Lighter and simpler. I'm using the Svelto (1st version) on a
4-speed block with a 28T low cog, and my dropout does not even have a hanger.
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Old 01-20-20, 04:44 PM
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Old 01-20-20, 06:15 PM
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I really like the Huret Eco. It's a lighter, better replacement for the Svelto for a late 70's bike.
From Disraeli Gears.
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Old 01-20-20, 06:26 PM
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Now I feel that my C&V bike experience won't be complete unless I pick up a bike that needs an allvit or svelto RD!
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Old 01-20-20, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
None other than Yellow Jersey's Andy Muzi is on record for the Svelto:

https://www.cyclingforums.com/thread...y-good.144849/
I'm pleased to see that Andrew Muzi, whose chops are far greater than mine will ever be, couldn't get the Huret Luxe long cage to work right either. It's pretty much my only fail as a bike tech.
Plus side, it sold on the 'Bay for stupid money.

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Old 01-20-20, 07:08 PM
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I don't consider the Allvit's drop-down knuckle to be a bash-guard, if anything the longer knuckle only adds leverage to bend the dropout hanger if the bike tips over.

But the normal, later Allvits did "fill in" the simpler early knuckle by maintaining a U-shaped cross-section, which provided support to both ends of the main para arm's bushing while taking away from it's minimalist form. I personally think that this re-design of the B-knuckle was unfortunate, though I am still a fan of the Allvit, modifying them for 6-speed operation (not such an easy task) on several occasions.

The Svelto's disadvantageous travel path with respect to the freewheel's contour will be more of an issue with modern chain, which is much more flexible. But it still can shift well with the right combination of chain and right-sized freewheel.

Thanks, Mark, for your excellent illustrations!

I've used Allvit's on 30t freewheel cogs, though once had to dremel a slight divot into the top edge of the outer (driveside) cage plate for clearance.

If one simply starts with an Allvit in good condition, then there should be no need to do anything to it other than to install it and apply a little oil once in a great while (though dependent on riding conditions of course).

Alvits were doubly shamed because of their being installed on so many low end bikes. Firstly, these bikes gave the product a lowly image, and secondly these bikes tended to be so poorly treated so as to prevent one from conducting a proper evaluation of function.

Schwinn also spec'd Shimano-made derailers on some of the same bikes that might have featured the Allvit, and which did actually have a dedicated bash-guard plate that could only be considered to be an added appendage versus simply being part of the B-knuckle. These are sometimes confused with the Allvit, as both have acres of chrome and bear Schwinn-Approved branding.
In either case, with the top "B"-knuckle always taking the hit, I fail to see what would ever actually be protected by any sort of additional leverage added to the top knuckle(?).
And, (only in in the Allvit's case), the wrap-around knuckle cross-section stiffened the long knuckle and added paired support to the pivots.

Shown here, in modified (6s) form on a nicely-maintained bike, works very well but the cable travel at the lever does become non-linear in a longer-travel way as the beyond-spec sixth (largest) cog is reached for. The Twin-Stick lever handles this amount of wrap, if barely.

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Old 01-23-20, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
I don't consider the Allvit's drop-down knuckle to be a bash-guard, if anything the longer knuckle only adds leverage to bend the dropout hanger if the bike tips over....

Schwinn also spec'd Shimano-made derailers on some of the same bikes that might have featured the Allvit, and which did actually have a dedicated bash-guard plate that could only be considered to be an added appendage versus simply being part of the B-knuckle. These are sometimes confused with the Allvit, as both have acres of chrome and bear Schwinn-Approved branding...
The guards on the Shimano derailleurs were similar to the Huret Allvit guard, in that they were either integral to the B-pivot housing or mounted directly to it. Consequently, if the bicycle tipped over, the hanger or claw adapter could still bend. These guards protected the derailleur mechanism, not the hanger. It was the typical approach in the early 1970s. Call them what you will but at the shop I managed we call them "bash guards" back in the day and that is what they are called on the Disraeli Gears site, while The Dancing Chain refers to them as "guards".

Last edited by T-Mar; 01-23-20 at 01:14 PM.
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