Baldy1953

I like the idea of a shaft drive bike. I do have a question. Are you able to coast ? Is it a direct drive where you cannot coast? Just curious for those with more smarts than me.

JonathanGennick 

Now this, this is cool:

https://brikbikes.com/product/upgrad...shaft-upgrade/

I'd totally throw down the extra 30 Euros.

79pmooney

Yeah chains will improve. But perhaps another %. Shafts have room to go a long ways. Chains have had the advantage of 100 times the research, development, on the road and in race testing. 1,000 times might be closer.

Minor fact. Around 1900, one of the standing world records was set on a shaft drive bike. (Research Major Taylor.) That bike also won races. Weight and efficiency didn't seem to slow it down all that much. Had that approach seen the 118 years of development, the research efforts and money of SunTour, Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAM, shaft drives now would make the OP's look like an early effort.

Ben

79pmooney

If it were direct drive, cool! (Fix gear rider here.) No more dropped chains locking the rear wheel and that slow stop taking all the tread off the tire (and usually a lot of the casing plus usually bending a link or two and scraping the chainstay).

Ben

tsiklonaut

Thanks for the very good insight! Didn't know about the sideways grinding and bending and how useless the shaft drive is. Let alone bicycle manufacturers, those motorcycle/moped manufacturers making shaft drives by choice must be really unintelligent folk after reading your and others in-depth analysis on the matter here and now I'm surprised they make shaft drives at all too.

I get the message now. I started the thread hoping to find any other fellow shaft drive bicyclist to know how they like theirs, but looks like I'm the only idiot in town and in fact I am such an idiot to start this kind of thread here that turned out to be shaft drive loathing festival, how everything is wrong about it. Didn't expect how knowledgeable some people are already knowing how bad the shaft drives are without ever trying one personally.

I propose admin to delete this thread all together to save the precious BikeForums space and users time on reading the cluttered irrelevant info about some useless alternative drivetrain, there're much more important topics to discuss than this. I'm really sorry about starting this thread. I'll delete my own post so at least BikeForum people can read what the majority of people here think about shaft drives and to give a warning for any future shaft drive user ("STAY AWAY!", I'm sure as most would agree here)

subgrade

Oh ffs, read twice before posting.

^ That is obviously meant to point out the advantage of chain-driven IGH over traditional derailleur gears, not shaft drive.

On topic: I would definitely want to try a shaft driven bike, but I don't think I would want to go far out of my way for it, as I don't find chain drive to be much hassle.

livedarklions

That's a ridiculous overreaction, and deleting the op was dumb. You're offering a lot of good info, and people are offering their opinion about it. It's a dialogue, not a war.

Put your op back, this is a good discussion. You were doing a good job of explaining why the technology should be tried until you threw this tantrum.

livedarklions

Like I said, I'm rooting for shaft drive to develop because even if the improvements hit a dead end eventually, it's better to have competition between technologies or things can get stagnant. I agree that there is a lot less room for chain drive to improve in terms of efficiency but that's because of the very high level of efficiency that's already been achieved. Where materials will change things for chains is in terms of durability and ease of maintenance. We're starting to see this with belt drives on some commuter bikes where ease of use may be a bigger consideration than efficiency. No way of knowing whether someone will soon develop a "maintenance free" chain or belt with really high efficiency, just as there is no way to predict when or if someone will develop a method of producing efficient cheap shaft drives. We really aren't disagreeing here, progress requires open minds.

Cuyuna

This looks intriguing...

JonathanGennick 

Please don't leave the thread and give up on us. I found your post interesting enough that I went to the websites for the remaining two brands and perused every one of their shaft-drive models. I get why one might want a shaft drive, and it's interesting to me that some are still being made.

livedarklions

I'm frustrated that he took down all the good info he had posted. He was handling all of the "it will ever work" objections so well, I know I was learning about stuff I had no idea existed.

joelcool

Ugh, I'm disappointed he left the thread as well. It was one of the better ones around here.

I have found that any thread here that exceeds one page is not worth opening - it seems there is no effort to remain on topic. It's the culture here, I get that and I understand it won't change.

The OP is obviously a highly intelligent individual with a substantial skill set and good communication skills with a couple of shaft drive bikes. I really did like his photography as well.

79pmooney

When I said that shaft drives have a long ways to go, I was in no way trying to imply they "aren't there yet". I was trying to say that they are at the German V-2 rocket stage. Way in advance of the Chinese fireworks that started it all but a long ways from the modern rocket. The chain is a very sophisticated ladder to the moon. With a few more years, dollars and minds sunk into shaft drives, mankind will have another good option. (In bike terms - perhaps a shaft could be developed where the spiral gears at the BB could be changed out to a different ratio. I am one who considers gear ratios to be very important, I change gears on one of my fix gears almost every time I ride and re-arrange the cluster on my good bike often. A system where it is locked in doesn't attract me. (It was an issue for Major Taylor also.)

Every shaft drive out there raises the learning another notch. All good.

Ben

livedarklions

I don't think we're disagreeing--I understood you meant that shaft drive probably has more room for improvement because chains have already been researched and developed to such a high degree. Frankly, though, I don't know if shaft drives are at the V2 stage of technology or the Hindenburg stage--it could be a technological dead end. The only way to find out is to throw some resources at it and see if it becomes useful and cheap enough to have some mass consumer appeal. It clearly is not there yet. I don't pretend to know if it can ever get there, but I'm glad someone is out there trying.

clengman

Rigid airships are back! maybe... COMPANY - Aeros

livedarklions

Every few years, someone claims they're about to do this, but basically, it's a balloon, and liable to get blown around.

clengman

Yeah. From what I have read, that's the big problem to overcome. I think the idea is that as they get bigger, wind is less of an issue. They say the next model they're working on is designed to be stable in winds up to 40 knots... which still sounds like it could be a problem, but they have plans to go bigger still. There seem to still be investors interested in the idea. I wouldn't call it dead yet.

79pmooney

It isn't just cheap that has to be addressed, It's perception. Hydraulic disks aren't cheap, require an entire reworking of frame and fork, mechanic education, etc, but with the marketing and engineers of the "big boys' behind them, they have flourished. Half that energy wold go a long ways. A highly advertised Trek shaft drive would start a big change.

Ben

50PlusCycling

Shaft drive bicycles have been sold in Japan for decades. They aren't all that common because they add a little to the price of the bike. Buyers are usually short-distance commuters who ride in dresses or suits, and don't want to get chain oil on their clothes.

tcs

Major Taylor set track racing records on a shaft drive Orient bike 120 years ago. Woodrow Willson toured England on a Columbia shaft drive bike in 1899.




More recently, the first rent-a-bikes in town were shaft drive.



They were replaced in a few months with chain drive bikes.