Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

1960s Bottecchia

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1960s Bottecchia

Old 07-05-19, 12:10 PM
  #1  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
1960s Bottecchia

NOTE: Thread previously entitled "Tell me about Leo..." - this was posted straight from the bike shop. I've since edited the post with better descriptions of what I saw today.

Posting direct from the LBS. Prices aren’t cheap. Considering this "Leo," a CyclArt repaint.




The shop is also drowning in C&V stuff of all levels - good, bad, "could be good but X," "why on earth did you chrome that," and "just awful."

Raleigh International - repainted and modded with bottle cage braze-ons. The ugly thing in the foreground is a Motobecane:




A sorry looking Austro-Daimler Super Leicht beat to hell and complete with stuck seatpost cut right at the wrong spot. Lye time. Behind it, a Boom-era frame of little provenance that was once painted over the chrome:



A fully restored '80s Merckx - beautiful, and overpriced for the value of two such frames if they expect to get $750 - and a Giant Cadex 980C...yawn...



Waterford-era Schwinn Paramount with Dura-Ace. I didn't photograph the Colnago Super a few spots away...but I'll rectify that tomorrow.



Another Raleigh International of the not-so-well-brazed variety. Kludged with a replacement fork and weird fixie build to ensure maximum jankiness effect. Nevertheless, that's an ex-pro team mechanic there, so don't judge him by the build.


Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:12 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 07-05-19, 12:36 PM
  #2  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Iím starting to wonder if that headbadge was just plopped on that frame. Canít find any evidence of such a brand (!)

Thereís also a Zunow frameset here in bare steel, and a crashed funnybike that was cheaply chromed at one time. Iím going nuts, Iím the best way ever.

-Kurt
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 12:50 PM
  #3  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Peugeot-badged Stronglight 104. Beautiful, and looks older than it is (and way overpriced, even without the Rino pedals).



Nice Nuovo crankset:


Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:15 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 01:28 PM
  #4  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Better headbadge pic of the "Leo" Bottechia:



Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:15 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 01:37 PM
  #5  
malcala622
Senior Member
 
malcala622's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pico Rivera, CA
Posts: 2,087

Bikes: Bianchi Trofeo/Limited/Giro.Tommasini Prestige. Bottecchia Cromor. Gios Torino. Torelli Strada?

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 65 Times in 50 Posts
@cudak888 Whats the story on the 7-Eleven EM?
malcala622 is online now  
Old 07-05-19, 01:54 PM
  #6  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 4,290

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton, Bornstein, Paisley, Paramounts, 3rensho, Moto TC, Raleigh Pro's, Marinoni, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC and more

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by malcala622 View Post
@cudak888 Whats the story on the 7-Eleven EM?
And @cudak888,

is the seatube aero or just me?
merziac is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 02:55 PM
  #7  
malcala622
Senior Member
 
malcala622's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pico Rivera, CA
Posts: 2,087

Bikes: Bianchi Trofeo/Limited/Giro.Tommasini Prestige. Bottecchia Cromor. Gios Torino. Torelli Strada?

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
And @cudak888,

is the seatube aero or just me?
Just the angle and lighting.
malcala622 is online now  
Old 07-05-19, 02:59 PM
  #8  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 4,290

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton, Bornstein, Paisley, Paramounts, 3rensho, Moto TC, Raleigh Pro's, Marinoni, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC and more

Mentioned: 105 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1200 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 92 Posts
Originally Posted by malcala622 View Post
Just the angle and lighting.
Yeah, I figured.
merziac is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 03:05 PM
  #9  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by malcala622 View Post
@cudak888 Whats the story on the 7-Eleven EM?
Recent repaint. $750 clams

My only hope of snagging it is to find something a lot cheaper and a lot smaller...and trade it.

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
And @cudak888,

is the seatube aero or just me?
Nope, just a standard, round seattube.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 03:07 PM
  #10  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Iím loaded up with frame trade bait for tomorrow:

cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 03:28 PM
  #11  
SurferRosa
Senior Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,077

Bikes: old school 531c & campy

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 70 Posts


about that stem, Colonel Kurtz is thinking, "the horror ... the horror."
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 04:08 PM
  #12  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
about that stem, Colonel Kurtz is thinking, "the horror ... the horror."
Colonel Kurtz is the owner of the shop, and probably did that stem himself (he's also a retired team mechanic, so I wouldn't knock him). It's not the International fork either, so it's no real biggie.

There are a gazillion International frames around that shop in all sorts of states - fully chromed, that blue one up there, two stock...none of them particularly nice.

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 04:17 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 07-05-19, 04:55 PM
  #13  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,468
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
This might be a help:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
Charles Wahl is online now  
Old 07-05-19, 05:08 PM
  #14  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
This might be a help:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/131757...57630922118844
Photos aren't mine, but seller's. I bought the frame, and built it up for my son. Also repainted by Cyclart. Top-of-seat-tube lug is different, and no chrome, but the rest looks about the same. And it has a Bottecchia-branded headset in great condition, bonus.
Concur; serial number around the seattube makes sense too. This one may pre-date yours, as it has the same headset lubrication port as this one: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-bikes.html

Can't seem to find these lugs associated with anything else other than the low-end Bottecchia Spcial though, and the Campagnolo 1010's and nice stay ends between both these bikes indicate that there's something more to it than just a base Special.

EDIT: Someone in the thread above put it at '55-64. No justification provided though.

Also found @Kommisar89's '59 Milano-Sanremo: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 05:30 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-05-19, 05:32 PM
  #15  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,468
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I didn't think the frame was low-end. It weighs under 3.1 kg, the same as early '70s Raleigh International or Competition, Motobťcane Le Champion, and Bob Jackson frames with similar tubesets.
Charles Wahl is online now  
Likes For Charles Wahl:
Old 07-05-19, 07:21 PM
  #16  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
I didn't think the frame was low-end. It weighs under 3.1 kg, the same as early '70s Raleigh International or Competition, Motobťcane Le Champion, and Bob Jackson frames with similar tubesets.
No worries Charles, in the excitement, I didn't clarify: It's way too easy to do a Google search only to find the low-end Specials wearing these lugs - not that the lugs are an indicator of quality. It seems as if these lugs may get an undeserved rap since Bottecchia threw them on the Special during the 1970's.

That said, there's nothing low end about these earlier frames, from the looks of it. It's just difficult to know what one is looking at. Yours is one of these nice frames, as is the "Leo" Bottecchia, but there's precious little to go on with these. @Kommisar89 apparently has a chromed frame which shares these lugs and the 1010 dropouts, along with the grease/oiling port: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...hia-frame.html, and @ldmataya seems to have a pipeline into dating these things: https://www.bikeforums.net/19337562-post5.html

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 07-05-19 at 07:25 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-06-19, 08:30 AM
  #17  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Off to the shop soon. He's asking $250 for that Bottecchia frame. Fingers crossed I can get him down a bit.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-06-19, 10:56 AM
  #18  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Itís mine now


cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-07-19, 02:34 PM
  #19  
ldmataya 
Senior Member
 
ldmataya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
I piped up awhile back with an opinion on the Leo Bottecchia, so @cudak888 asked me to back up that seemingly authoritarian claim

My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.

Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
ldmataya is offline  
Likes For ldmataya:
Old 07-07-19, 05:06 PM
  #20  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by ldmataya View Post
I piped up awhile back with an opinion on the Leo Bottecchia, so @cudak888 asked me to back up that seemingly authoritarian claim

My story is I've been a fan of these for awhile. I own a 1969 Special, a 1972 Giro D'Italia, a NOS 1989 Equipe with C-Record, and an early 1950's Tipo Giro D'Italia (Tipo or "model" was a common prefix used by Italia manufacturers pre bike boom). The first three were easy to date, especially because I purchased the Special new. The older one is my estimate (1950-1954) based on the components that were on it when I acquired it, and the fact that I have yet to see any Bottecchia made after 1955 with these particular head lugs (see Flickr album link below). Now, back when ebay was a relatively new thing, I was fortunate enough to invest around the IPO - so I was watching the company and the auctions for bikes closely. In those early years there were three outstanding Bottecchia items that came up that I noticed. I was able to purchase one of the three. The other two were late 1950's complete bikes, one original and one restored. Had I been smart, I would have archived those photos. One that was claimed to be a 1959 Giro D'Italia had a seat tube very similar to my old one (chromed panel with decal) and lugs very similar to the Leo. I also recall seeing similar lugs in a couple of models claimed to be early 1960s. Once the bike boom Bottecchia's started to show up in the US, we don't see that style of lug to my knowledge - but many other carryovers did come along like half chromed stays and chromed head tube lugs. Hence - my claim that the Leo style looks to be somewhere between 1955 and start of the bike boom.

Flickr album of early 50s Tipo Giro D'Italia:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmETCHxd
Interesting observations.

I found that this lug does seem to show up on some of the earlier, bottom-end Bottecchia specials, which made me a bit concerned at first, but the fork crown and Campagnolo drops throughout helped to alleviate these fears.

I'm pretty sure we're looking at the early 1960's with Leo,as it is wearing closed "C" Campagnolo 1010 drops. My '61 Schwinn Paramount, by comparison, wears the open "C." I'm not sure when the hole for the Campagnolo Sport derailer was dropped, but Leo does have it.

Pity we don't have a '60s Bottecchia catalog kicking about.

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 07:15 PM
  #21  
MauriceMoss
Senior Member
 
MauriceMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 351

Bikes: None in ridable condition

Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
@cudak888 - I like the Leo! Do you have a head-on closeup shot of that head badge that you could post? The reason I'm asking is that I've never seen an actual Leo head badge, only a drawing.

Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).




Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.

In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):

* From a recent ID thread





* One for sale in Italy
MauriceMoss is offline  
Old 08-13-19, 05:32 AM
  #22  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss View Post
@cudak888 - I like the Leo! Do you have a head-on closeup shot of that head badge that you could post? The reason I'm asking is that I've never seen an actual Leo head badge, only a drawing.

Here is a copy of a patent application for a bicycle brand called Leo that was filed by Teodoro Carinelli. I have no idea what the history of that sub-brand is, but since there are essentially no examples online, it probably wasn't long lived (it may even have been an export only type label?).

Anyways, your Leo looks like a nice bike.

In case you haven't seen them yet, here are two more Bottecchias (with one being perhaps a little older than your Leo):

* From a recent ID thread

* One for sale in Italy
Maurice, I never thought the thread would take this direction, as I was starting to believe the Leo badge might have not even originated with a bicycle. But - with some slight differences, mainly Carinelli's name and the shape of the badge - that's the logo, no doubt about it. I'll post closeups in a second.

The badge holes do line up with the Bottecchia frame, so I'm not sure what to believe at this point regarding this specific frame.

Those two Bottechias in your photos look about the same if you examine them as frames only. Brown one looks to be a repaint with a later Sugino mid-range crankset on it, probably a 1970's upgrade from the cottered crank (which looks like a Stronglight, but I'm pretty sure it isn't), but the lugwork and frame details match up with the rest.

If there only wasn't such a wide range of years associated with these. About the only thing that seems as if it could help with dating is the serial (except no serial charts exist) and the deletion of the grease port at the back of the headtube (date unknown). EDIT: Headbadge holes may be an indicator; just noticed the Italian frame has them on the sides.

-Kurt
__________________

Last edited by cudak888; 08-13-19 at 05:40 AM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-13-19, 05:35 AM
  #23  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
Thread Starter
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 23,880

Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 156 Posts

cudak888 is offline  
Old 08-13-19, 05:50 AM
  #24  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 15,526

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3782 Post(s)
Liked 163 Times in 133 Posts
Heck I would have bought that bike for the head badge. Nice score.

If I had a bike shop like that near me, I'd be broke by now,
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 08-13-19, 04:18 PM
  #25  
stardognine
Turquoise gatherer.
 
stardognine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Arid Arizona, for now.
Posts: 1,704

Bikes: 1985 Cannondale ST400

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Heck I would have bought that bike for the head badge. Nice score.

If I had a bike shop like that near me, I'd be broke by now,
Roger that, nice grab. 👍 And roger on being broke all the time, if that stuff's too close. 🙄😉
What's the deal on that Cannondale, with the "unique" stem? That colorway rocks, with a better stem. 😎
stardognine is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.