edwong3

A few months back, I posted a thread about me possibly buying a new Brompton and asked questions about gearing, etc. Try as I did, I could not pull the trigger on getting the Bromie for a couple of reasons. First, it had nothing to do with affordability because I had the budget to do it however, in the back of my mind, I strongly felt the price for one of these bikes outstripped the value. Nothing wrong with that brand's reputation or the utility of their bikes but again, I couldn't justify the cost of entry especially after considering what my intended use for the future folder would be for me.

First of all, I really didn't need the ultra-compact fold, nor do I need to commute intermodally or travel to faraway places. I am retired for one and second, I am not a fan of leaving the comfort of my small universe.🤣i

After some extensive searching online, I found what I believe is a really great folding bike at an irresistible price, delivered today via FedEx from Target.com. But enough of this jibber-jabber and just scroll down to see what I decided to get instead:

OK, the printing on the box gives away which brand it is. It is a Zizzo Liberte. It's a 23 lbs. wonder for 1/4 the price of a Brompton A-Line.



This thing came well packed in a double box and wrapped everywhere there could be a possible contact with the bike's parts.



Out of the box, free at last!



We have a seat-post and saddle.




It literally, required zero assembly other than inserting the seat-post. Even the pedals were installed.



A couple of photos of the cockpit and drivetrain.



It's an 8-speed, 48 tooth chainring, 11-32 cog-set. Not sure if it's a freewheel or cassette. I suspect it might be the later.



I apologize if the photos rendered big. I really was in a bit of a hurry to post this to the forum, and maybe later, I will get into more details. Today in Orlando, it is quite chilly and looks like it is going to rain. I'm not in a mood to go on a test ride until it warms up a bit more. In the meantime, I will take the time to go through the bike to make sure everything is properly adjusted and fasteners are appropriately tight. I am also going to spend time looking and admiring the thing. It is the most attractive folder I have ever bought. Yea, I know, us and our folders. (Roll-eye moment). LOL!

Ride safe folks.

Edward Wong III
2023 Zizzo Liberte

3speedslow

I’ll guess cassette.

It’s a nice looking machine! Is the frame chromoly? Is there a luggage block on the head tube?

edwong3

Hi,
Thanks for chiming in. The frame and fork are made of LX-6066 Aluminum Alloy. While the only model in Zizzo's lineup that comes stock out of the box with the Brompton style carry block is the Forte. This is the heavier duty, commuting, utility and light touring counterpart to the Liberte, Zizzo actually makes available an accessory called the "Pig-Nose" that clamps on the lower part of the head tube. Here is a link to that page. ZiZZO head tube Pig Nose adapter (ø50mm) – ZiZZO Folding bike

I did confirm that the cog set is indeed a cassette. It's an HG 11-32T 8-speed cassette.

Hope this answers your questions.
Ed

BobbyG

I test rode a used Zizzo Liberte and it is a fun, fast folder! Enjoy!

edwong3

Thanks Bobby G!

Ed

john m flores 

Awesome! I bought one in 2019 on sale from Costco. Back then, my girlfriend lived in Washington DC, and I'd throw the Liberte onto the bus or train, unpack it at Union Station and ride to her place. And then we'd explore the city on two wheels. She no longer lives in DC, so the Liberte has become my town runabout. I got the pignose on the front and threw on an old rack and a couple of bucket panniers for grocery runs.



It's been mostly maintenance free. I've had to adjust the headset once or twice - it started binding but it was an easy adjustment. I've also replaced the front and rear quick releases with Pinhead Locks for extra security. Some new brake pads/adjustment, and I've had to tighten the seat's quick release to keep the seat from sliding down. I've also thrown a Slime tube in the rear.

Best of luck with yours!

edwong3

I'll tell you what John. You've gotten your money's worth out of that bike. Good for you.

Funny that you mentioned replacing the quick releases for a much harder to tamper with bolt system. I used to do the same with some past folders I've owned. These were my "vehicles" and I'd lock them outside while I watched a movie at the local theater or shopped for some groceries. Great times.

As for the Liberte, I don't plan to do the same as I'll be riding mostly for pure recreation and fitness, so I'll never be away from the bike at any moment. If I decide for example for a rare stop at an IHOP or similar, I shouldn't have any trouble bringing it in with me as it folds small enough and is light to carry in one hand while being led to a table to order a meal.

Thanks for chiming in.
Ed

edwong3

I added a couple of accessories; an Incredibell and a Zefal phone holder:


Here is another right side profile snapshot towards the back of the living-room instead of the kitchen. I need of course to raise the seat a bit more and lower the handle-post some too.

Duragrouch

Looks like a good component set; Not only a forged crank, but looks like hollowtech II style with external bearings. Tip: Double check the pedal installation torque; Many report with pre-installed pedals, them coming unscrewed and stripping the crank threads.

Looks like a much better deal than a Dahon Mariner 8, which is now over 2X the price (3X the price versus the price you paid!). That crank, if 110mm BCD, is tailor made for a double chainring; Remove the chainguard, move the 48 to the outside, mount a 34 on the inside. For that oversize seat tube, need a special adaptor to mount a road (braze-on) style front derailleur, but not all will fit the adaptor, you need to check fit (notably, some shimanos don't fit, has to do with the linkage style).

I also like the 28 spoke front wheel, and laced, same as rear, whereas Dahon went 20 spokes and radial in front to save money and weight, and it's not as durable a wheel, and you need to carry more different length spare spokes on a tour.

I'm already set, but if they come out with that bike with disc brakes, I'll be tempted, especially with a 50/34 crank. You just can't get 400% gearing on a 20" with 1X gearing, the derailleur hangs too low. At least not with an 11 high cog. Maybe with a 9-36.

edwong3

Hey, thanks for your input. I did check all the fasteners and parts for tightness, and everything looks good. Even the brakes and shifter was adjusted right out of the box. Zizzo's tech(s) actually make sure the bike is ready to go almost as soon as you get it unpacked.

Yes, the fit and finish on this bike for the money I paid is outstanding. After pricing other 20 inch, 8-speed folders from Dahon and Tern, I did good.

I have watch many videos on YouTube and seen what is possible as far as mods and upgrades go. I am happy with the bike as it came and the 1 x 8 drivetrain is more than adequate for the terrain where I live. One guy from a YT channel called, "I bike unfolded", did add a second chainring to his Zizzo Forte which has the same drivetrain as the Liberte, and took it on a touring trip up the Rock Mountains. The bike performed perfectly.

Thanks again for posting.
Edward

edwong3

Believe it or not, today was the first time I took my new Zizzo for a short spin through the neighborhood. The weather was not to my liking but it did warm up a bit.

Very quickly, I was pleasantly surprised just how efficient this bike is. I felt that every pedal stroke was transmitted in full to the rear wheel and was propelled forward with authority. Zizzo was not joking from reading their engineering page on the website about all that went into the design to make it efficient.

The seat is far more comfortable than I imagined it would be. I can see myself riding for a considerable amount of time.

The thing is that the bike is not limited by its design, but rather by the rider...me. I remembered why I had been riding an e-bike in the last 6 years due to my health conditions. Luckily for me, the bike is so light and here's that word again...efficient. The only time my lower leg muscles complain was when I went up hill, I could feel some burning in the calves. I think it will get better the more I ride in the coming weeks and months.

But this is not about my physical performance but about the fact that I am happy with my choice to get back into acoustic (muscle powered) cycling again. I still plan to ride my little e-bike every new and then as it is a lot of fun.

wesgreen

Thank you, Dr. Hon!

edwong3

Yes, I agree. Dr. David Hon created a whole new way of owning and using a bicycle. I put him right up there with Andrew Richie, the creator of the Brompton as well any others who throughout the years have contributed significantly to this segment.

Edward

tds101 

That hollowtech style bottom bracket really helps... Looks like a heck of a fun ride.

edwong3

For the money, this bike came with some nice parts that you would see on bikes costing $200 to $300 more. And 23 lb.
for this price segment is also unheard of. Sure, there are lighter folders such as the Brompton T-Line and some other high
priced models or special one-off builds, but how many average folks want to drop the big bucks on one?

For the brief moment I got to ride it yesterday (A little over a mile), the bike is fun to ride. It's very responsive to your
inputs. I'm planning to take it out for another short ride of maybe 2-miles plus. I'm taking it easy as I have not ridden a
pedal bike in nearly 8-years.

Edward

wesgreen

Not only that, he also designed the frame of which the Zizzo frame is an unauthorized carbon copy, and the many design ideas and innovations that come with it. It appears that Zizzo produces quality bikes for low prices. They sure saved a lot on R&D. Credit where credit is due.

tds101 

My Oyama CX16D has the hollowtech style bottom bracket, and it's actually buttery smooth. I love it.

My Origami Bull will be getting either a hollowtech upgrade, at the minimum. I'm still on the fence about doing a mid drive, but the ride is amazingly like a full sized bike.

Duragrouch

The advantages are many, compared to square-taper cartridge bottom bracket:
- Hollow axle, but larger diameter, so lighter, and more rigid.
- Bearings on a wider spacing (closer to crank arms), so radial forces slightly reduced.
- External bearings, so balls are larger and/or more of them.
- Unlike cartridge bottom bracket, bearing preload can be adjusted. ***I cannot overstate the importance of this; With even a tiny bit of slack, load is only going into a couple of the balls at any given time; With a slight axial preload, you're loading 180 degrees of the bearing balls. This contributes enormously to bearing durability.*** Adjusting preload is easy; Loosen left crank arm clamp bolts. (Then best to clean any dirt between crank arms and bearings on both sides.) Tighten end cap to torque spec. Retighten left crank arm clamp bolts to spec.
- Crank can easily be removed without a crank tool, even in the field; Loosen the two bolts that clamp on the left crank arm, and the whole right arm and spider slides right out. Handy if you somehow bend a chainring on a tour or offroad and need to flatten it to keep going. Or to pull the crank for travel packing.
- Does not freeze on, or loosen, as often as cranks on square tapers.
- Not proprietary interface.
- Looks great.

I'll also add about the particular crank I bought:
- Fantastic deal at $75 for crank with chainrings and external bearings, excellent quality.
- Low Q-factor, more like a road crank, pedals are closer to bike, less bend to crank arms.
- Available in 5-bolt 110mm BCD, pretty retro at this point but I like better than 4-bolt symmetrical, and most especially 4-bolt non-symmetrical patterns. (110mm allows 34T low, you can't go that low with 130mm BCD.)
- Available with steel or aluminum chainrings.
- Perfect chainline, midway between the two chainrings is exactly in line with center of cassette.

Duragrouch

Question: Is that Liberte frame brushed finished aluminum, and under clear lacquer, or is it painted silver? If the finish looks "metalflake", it's most probably painted. If fine lines going in the same directions, probably (wire) brushed finished (can also be done with Scotchbrite), like a stainless kitchen sink.

Duragrouch

Above, regarding the Origami Bull riding like a full size bike: Good to know. Not a surprise, from what I am seeing. In terms of ride quality, the large tires should compensate for the smaller wheels. But in terms of steering stability, those large, heavy tires and tubes (and 36 spokes and nipples), add rotating inertia (angular momentum), so gyroscopic inertia closer or equal to a large wheel bike with skinnier tires. Also, by my eye, I think that bike has caster/trail toward the large end of typical bikes, especially 20", my guess is perhaps 70mm? Too much above that and you can get "wheel-flop" issues at low speed, but that one is probably good in that regard. Notably, I'd like just a touch more caster/trail on my Dahon.

That's quite the collection of bikes you're getting. The Liberte is a good deal, but I think the Bull even better, currently listed online at $499, down from $699 list. Add a double crank (for crank and bearings, derailleur, shifter, cables, I think you could do for $150 easy, if you get the crank deal I did), and that is one damned fine bike for $650. Seriously.

Mid-drive: A similarly equipped Dahon with mid-drive is about $2700, plus it's lame on motor power and battery size. I think with retrofit, you need one chainring to transfer power from the motor(?); Hopefully you can do that with the inner ring on a triple, so you still have a 50/34 for pedaling. On my bike, a triple would not have worked, the innermost ring was too far in for the derailleur, and if I had used a super-wide bottom bracket axle, the chainline would have been way off. But an innermost ring overlapping the bottom bracket, that should not be a problem as a mid-drive chain to the motor, if the motor is properly positioned.

tds101 

The Origami Bull only has one chainring, so there's no issue with it. It's also 9 speed, which is more than enough for a mid drive modification. Should turn out good for my prospective usage.

PS: you're confusing me with the OP. I don't own the Liberte. It's a great bike, but not in my stable. 😁

edwong3

Well, much of what you said in your post made sense, but I am of the opinion that stating that the Zizzo frame is "an unauthorized carbon copy" is a stretch. Not a single one of us here on this humble forum can claim they are privy to how the industry works "backstage" or whether the patents are expired (They're only good for 10 yrs.) or if there are licensing agreements between manufacturers, etc. There is a myriad of other brands that use this same frame architecture, and we haven't seen Dahon go ballistic against anyone that does.

Just something to ponder but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Thanks for posting.

edwong3

I believe it's a brushed finish aluminum frame. It doesn't have a "metal flake" look to it at all. Since this is Zizzo's lightest bike, not painting it helps to save on weight.

Thanks for posting.

edwong3

"The Liberte is a good deal, but I think the Bull even better, currently listed online at $499, down from $699 list."

The Origami Bull is a great bike for just under $500. In my case, I feel like I lucked out big time as Target.com had the Liberte listed for $302.00 shipped! The normal price as listed on Zizzo's website is something like $479.99 at the time of this writing so naturally I jumped on Target's sale. The bike was selling for this low price I think since "Black Friday" and was constantly going out of stock throughout. That was for the "black on silver" (lettering color) which is the one I wanted. They always had the red on silver but I didn't like that color combo.

Finally, in late December, the black on silver was back in stock and still at the special price of $302 so I hit that buy now button so fast I thought I would break the keyboard. No joke, less than 24 hours after I ordered, the black on silver, it was out of stock again and the price was raised to $430. I just made it in the nick of time!

I was standing right at the door when the FedEx delivery driver arrived and I took my new toy right in. You guys know the rest of the story.





I think I chose the Liberte mostly because I felt I needed the lightest, most efficient bike I could get my hands on due to the fact that I am deemed legally disabled and am not very strong. Heck, when I go out to shop I actually take my walker with me since I find myself having to do a lot of walking. I consider myself lucky to be able to stay mobile and even ride a bike, albeit not very effectively...yet.

Ride safe everyone!

GeezyRider 

A Liberte for $302 delivered is probably about the best bang for the buck you can achieve for a new folder. I hope you are able to enjoy longer and longer rides on your Liberte.