Road Test/Bike Review (1990) ALEX MOULTON Speed
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Florida, USA
Posts: 1,992
Bikes: Litespeed (9); Slingshot (9); Specialized (3); Kestrel (2); Cervelo (1); FELT (1); Trek (2)
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 436 Post(s)
Liked 3,475 Times
in
1,000 Posts
Road Test/Bike Review (1990) ALEX MOULTON Speed
__________________
WTB: Slingshot bicycle promotional documents (catalog, pamphlets, etc).
WTB: American Cycling May - Aug, Oct, Dec 1966.
WTB: Bicycle Guide issues 1984 (any); Jun 1987; Jul, Nov/Dec 1992; Apr 1994; 1996 -1998 (any)
WTB: Bike World issue Jun 1974.
WTB: Slingshot bicycle promotional documents (catalog, pamphlets, etc).
WTB: American Cycling May - Aug, Oct, Dec 1966.
WTB: Bicycle Guide issues 1984 (any); Jun 1987; Jul, Nov/Dec 1992; Apr 1994; 1996 -1998 (any)
WTB: Bike World issue Jun 1974.
Likes For SpeedofLite:
#2
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked 1,826 Times
in
1,062 Posts
Likes For tcs:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,680
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 4,999 Times
in
1,781 Posts
I'd love to try one to see how it does on our crappy roads. But I bet even used they are probably pretty pricey!
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,701
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 650 Times
in
336 Posts
I've always wanted to try a Moulton.
Looks like in the current production of this model they have updated the design to remove the beefy pin tube even.
Looks like in the current production of this model they have updated the design to remove the beefy pin tube even.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Burien WA
Posts: 512
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, LeMond Victoire, Bianchi Campione d'Italia, Kona Hei Hei, Ritchey Ultra, Schwinn "Paramount" PDG, '83 Trek 640
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
211 Posts
Crazy that modern carbon wheels are even lighter than the tiny wheels Doug Roosa (the author) was raving about in this review.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,111
Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times
in
666 Posts
Remember that although Moulten's were originally designed for more casual riders, they have also been used, where allowed, for racing or records. The human powered bike competition featured many Moulten's and the Race Across America featured a Moulten. Small wheels + decent suspension does work.
It is too bad that they are so expensive. I would like to try the 20" wheeled version.
It is too bad that they are so expensive. I would like to try the 20" wheeled version.
#8
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked 1,826 Times
in
1,062 Posts
The knee in the cost/feature curve for Moultons seems to bend around the SST (£2950, ~$3750) or Flyte (£3350, ~$4250) models.
Agreed, not cheap, but I look through the Trek, Specialized, Giant and Cannondale catalogs and see many more expensive offerings.
Agreed, not cheap, but I look through the Trek, Specialized, Giant and Cannondale catalogs and see many more expensive offerings.
#9
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked 1,826 Times
in
1,062 Posts
'That the universal agreement has fixed on 70 cm as the proper size for wheels does not in anyway prove that this diameter is best. It simply proves that cyclists follow each other like sheep.’ - Paul De Vivie
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,111
Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times
in
666 Posts
I think the price is justified.They never became popular enough to become common. It's funny that MiniVelo's have gained popularity, but lack the suspension of the Moulton.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,478
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1829 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times
in
1,581 Posts
For folding bikes, the small wheels make a lot of sense.
For bikes that don't need to fit in small spaces, it's hard to argue that small is still better. Adding suspension does help compensate for the reduced ability of the wheels to bridge gaps in the road surface... although the author then argues that the suspension allows the tires to be pumped up to 140 psi to "reduce rolling resistance". Later, we learn that the tires are 1 1/4", or 32mm.
140psi in a 32mm tire?? Don't let Jan Heine hear about this.
It's possible that the small tires weren't available in a lightweight, supple version, so the current understanding that high pressures aren't the solution to low rolling resistance might not apply.
Has Moulton updated their designs to use wide tires instead of the heavier suspension?
Steve in Peoria (it would still be fun to take a Moulton for a spin around the block regardless)
For bikes that don't need to fit in small spaces, it's hard to argue that small is still better. Adding suspension does help compensate for the reduced ability of the wheels to bridge gaps in the road surface... although the author then argues that the suspension allows the tires to be pumped up to 140 psi to "reduce rolling resistance". Later, we learn that the tires are 1 1/4", or 32mm.
140psi in a 32mm tire?? Don't let Jan Heine hear about this.
It's possible that the small tires weren't available in a lightweight, supple version, so the current understanding that high pressures aren't the solution to low rolling resistance might not apply.
Has Moulton updated their designs to use wide tires instead of the heavier suspension?
Steve in Peoria (it would still be fun to take a Moulton for a spin around the block regardless)
Likes For steelbikeguy:
#12
Senior Member
Are you contending that a 17” wheel will handle road unevenness and gaps in surface as well as 70cm or any larger size that sheep use?
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,795
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3514 Post(s)
Liked 2,927 Times
in
1,776 Posts
Could there be an uglier bike?
#14
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked 1,826 Times
in
1,062 Posts
In Mr. Heine's recent book he speaks fondly of, oh, maybe a dozen bike designers/builders. There's only one bike designer he criticizes: the late Dr. Moulton. He has castigated Dr. Moulton and Moulton bikes on occasion in his blog and magazine as well. Let us say Mr. Heine is somewhat aware of the Moulton design philosophy.
In other news, the Moulton Works' order books are full and they are adding staff as fast as they can be trained.
In other news, the Moulton Works' order books are full and they are adding staff as fast as they can be trained.
Likes For tcs:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,111
Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 811 Post(s)
Liked 1,024 Times
in
666 Posts
Please keep in mind that I don't own a Moulton and have never ridden one either. I can only go from stories that I hear and read about. Many Moulton cyclist say that the positives outweigh the negatives compared to a typical road bike. One story that has stuck in my head is where Dave Bogdan rode a Moulton across the United States, 3000miles in 10 days for the 1988 Race Across America bike race. This is quite a feat. At the end, he was the only rider that could hold a pen to sign autographs.
The other story that I hear is that as a Touring bike you can take the train, bus, plane or a car more easily because the Moulton takes up less space than a typical touring bike especially when you consider racks and fenders. You can do an "out and back tour" instead of having to complete a loop. It just give you more options.
It definitely has positives and it definitely has negatives. By the way, one of the reasons that I said I'd like to try the 20" bike is that, I would consider 17" wheel a big negative. At least with a Moulton APB with 20" wheels , I could go to an local bike shop and get a tire, a tube and even a rim if I needed one.
I think this design was ahead of it's time. Folding bikes have adopted suspension to deal with the limitation of small wheels. Mini Velo's have gained a niche following. There are things in the bike world that are heading down the path that Alex Moulton first blazed. Or at least, that is my opinion.
The other story that I hear is that as a Touring bike you can take the train, bus, plane or a car more easily because the Moulton takes up less space than a typical touring bike especially when you consider racks and fenders. You can do an "out and back tour" instead of having to complete a loop. It just give you more options.
It definitely has positives and it definitely has negatives. By the way, one of the reasons that I said I'd like to try the 20" bike is that, I would consider 17" wheel a big negative. At least with a Moulton APB with 20" wheels , I could go to an local bike shop and get a tire, a tube and even a rim if I needed one.
I think this design was ahead of it's time. Folding bikes have adopted suspension to deal with the limitation of small wheels. Mini Velo's have gained a niche following. There are things in the bike world that are heading down the path that Alex Moulton first blazed. Or at least, that is my opinion.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,478
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1829 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times
in
1,581 Posts
In Mr. Heine's recent book he speaks fondly of, oh, maybe a dozen bike designers/builders. There's only one bike designer he criticizes: the late Dr. Moulton. He has castigated Dr. Moulton and Moulton bikes on occasion in his blog and magazine as well. Let us say Mr. Heine is somewhat aware of the Moulton design philosophy.
In other news, the Moulton Works' order books are full and they are adding staff as fast as they can be trained.
In other news, the Moulton Works' order books are full and they are adding staff as fast as they can be trained.
The Rivendell Reader #16 contains an article where Chester Kyle interviews Alex Moulton. The Moulton family had worked with rubber products, and there was some interest in the use of rubber elastomers in simple suspensions. Mr. Moulton mentions being impressed with how the use of small wheels in the Morris Mini had produced some efficiencies in the vehicle's design. My general impression is that he was fond of the idea of the use of small wheels and suspension and felt that it could be applied to bikes with good results. There doesn't seem to be any sign of an investigation of various methods of improving a bike's lightness or ride quality, with the selection of the optimal method based on the merits of each.
As a fellow packrat and hoarder of bike magazine articles, I'm attaching the interview with Alex Moulton below...
Steve in Peoria
Likes For steelbikeguy:
#17
Senior Member
I have a Moulton, and I love it. I won’t say it’s as fast as a full-sized road bike, but I will say than in nearly 50 years of riding, I haven’t ridden a bike which has such a combination of positive attributes. It soaks up the bumps, is remarkably stable, surprisingly fast, and easily modifiable. Some people don’t like the space frame design, but I do. A Moulton New Series is on my shopping list, I just have to figure out how I can justify to my wife how I spent $20k+ on a bike. I’ll remind her that I didn’t complain when she spent $15k for a Birkin handbag.
#18
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,627
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1671 Post(s)
Liked 1,826 Times
in
1,062 Posts
It's a well-ridden road: it would be hard to come up with a fresh, new criticism of Moulton bikes; they have been denigrated and even savaged since 1962 and continue to be to this day. Yet the bikes have their fans.
Likes For tcs:
Likes For rider19:
#21
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked 1,844 Times
in
835 Posts
Interesting information. Thanks for posting.
As a 20+ year Bike Friday owner, I am in no position to pass judgment on small-wheel aficionados.
As a 20+ year Bike Friday owner, I am in no position to pass judgment on small-wheel aficionados.
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,478
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1829 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times
in
1,581 Posts
Looking through it... I'm impressed at the creation of a power measuring device with a strain gauge! Nicely done! The technology of the day definitely didn't allow putting the electronics on the bike, so I'm impressed by the use of the circular path in the aircraft hangar. I've seen pics of a van used by Cinelli(?) use in a similar fashion to get signals from a bike while going down the road, reinforcing the idea that getting decent data back then was certainly not easy.
Reading through the pages, I see the idea that small wheels are useful for carrying cargo and allowing the bike to fit in small spaces. I was looking for some info that suggested that small wheels offered performance advantages over large wheels... and I don't think I've found it. The most significant text seems to be this:
"By elimination it was therefore deduced that the greatest influence in the difference of power required to drive the two machines lay in the tyres. Figure 9 shows that the tyre offering the least resistance was the 17 in high pressure tyre of nylon thread construction developed in conjunction with Dunlop Rubber Co. This tyre was equalled in power consumption by the 17 in tubular tyres, a form of construction which dispenses with the inner inflated tube, the tyre itself containing the air under pressure. The 27 in x 1 1/4 in high pressure tyre accounted for the 6 per cent difference in power requirement, but a significant improvement was made if 27 in tubular tyres was used. An important observation was the high power requirement of the small diameter large section tyre (1 5/8 in section) which incurred a 38 per cent penalty when inflated to the recommended 50 psi."
I transcribe this from the pages, so there may be some errors... or maybe just my fingers refusing to type "tyres"...
The issue of the lower power required by the smaller wheels seems to be dependent on the tyres that Dunlop developed for this project. Well.. there's also the question of the tires on the large wheeled bike. My first 10 speed had 27 x 1/4" tires, and they were cheap tires rated for 70psi. The tubulars of the day were the good tires, which is what my 1974 Raleigh International came with. A few years later, the first decent 1 1/8" high pressure (90psi) clinchers became available, offering a definite advantage over the 70psi clinchers, but still a bit behind the sew-ups.
The wording "The 27 in x 1 1/4 in high pressure tyre accounted for the 6 per cent difference in power requirement, but a significant improvement was made if 27 in tubular tyres was used." hints that the difference might just be due to the tyres/tires instead of the wheel size.
At the same time, it doesn't suggest that the smaller wheel is performing any worse than the larger wheel.
I commend Mr. Moulton for taking this effort to get actual data in this project! This was much too rare in an industry that tended to rely on seat-of-the-pants (shorts?) feel. I do wonder how much difference the test environment made. Having spent many hours working in an aircraft hangar, I will note that the surface is very smooth. I'd say that it is similar to the floor of the average car garage. It is quite a bit different from the texture of the average road. I'd expect a bit more rolling resistance from any wheel on a typical road than a typical hangar floor, and the effect would be greater on a smaller wheel. I'm not faulting Mr. Moulton for not going to this level of detail... he went far beyond his peers in terms of basing his decisions on experimental data (to the best of my knowledge, imho, etc.)
Steve in Peoria
(this is the hanger that I spent many interesting hours in, troubleshooting the electronics on A-4 Skyhawks at MCAS Yuma... plus a lot of hours in the sun on the flight line. hot!)
Likes For steelbikeguy:
#23
Cantilever believer
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 536 Post(s)
Liked 1,844 Times
in
835 Posts
(also a former Yuman being back in the late 1980s - I remember the wind more than the hills...)
__________________
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Likes For RCMoeur:
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 4,478
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1829 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times
in
1,581 Posts
I do remember some high winds and having sand blown into my eyes. Nasty. I remember the heat most of all.
I also remember Kenny's(?) bike shop, where I got my first pair of bike shoes with nail-on cleats!
Had a couple of buddies that had raced, and taught me to ride pace lines and such. Good times.
Steve in Peoria (no, not the one in Arizona)