BikeManDan

My girlfriend and I have had a tandem for 2 months now and have overall enjoyed it but as I ride more I'm getting kind of sick of it. The reason is because for me, its like riding a 40lb single with 100lb of weight strapped on the back. I'm constantly out of breath and straining my already injured knees getting us both on our way (and up hills is terrible).

I finally decided to say something, though knowing it wouldn't be received well. She instantly got defensive and she was hurt that I would even suggest it.

I don't really want to give up our tandem but I don't know if I can go on like this.


Any advice from someone in this situation before?

Blue Jays

Maybe you can switch between riding the tandem and standard rigs on alternating weekends? Just think, your bicycle is going to feel like a Honda CBR 1000RR motorcycle with all the extra training you've been doing! Try to keep the discussion rational when you discuss changes to the riding program.

Ritterview

First, wear a heart rate monitor, so that you can point out your HR nearing 200.

Then, invite her to wear a HRM as well, for stoker training. If she is loping along at 105 that is certainly grounds for a Captain-Stoker discussion.

SDS

It seems to me that you need to get the cadence up to avoid tearing up your knees. If I had fragile knees (from time to time I have) I would stay above 90 rpm unless I was just piddling along. That suggests bike computers with cadence on both ends of the tandem, and telling her you need to stay over 90 rpm when working, and shifting to the appropriate gear to do that. You might have to get her shorter crankarms to get her comfortable at that cadence, if the ones she has now are too long.

I would guess your stoker has little or no medium-or-fast single bike experience, and she isn't used to making the pace to stay with groups. With the appropriate rpm range established, I would start riding with a relatively slow group with friends with whom she would want to associate, and gradually pick rides that will go faster and longer, with her understanding that the two of you will want to stay in the pack and in the draft. If I am right, you are creating a cyclist and an athlete from scratch, and the components that you lack that you will need are basic cycling skills (cadence and also a smooth pedal stroke that doesn't move the bike around at that cadence) and fitness and motivation. The other thing you can do is to involve her by letting her help when picking the rides that you do. Then she has some commitment to making the pace. The best way to do this is subtly and slowly, staying slightly behind her rate of improvement, so she won't suffer too much as increments of improved performance are achieved.

A heart rate monitor will help an athlete by giving an objective assessment of the level of effort being maintained, and the length of time for which that level of effort can be continued. Before that matters, though, you need skills and desire.

TandemGeek

You have three options:

1. Suck-it-up: If one of the reasons that you decided to take up the tandem was so that you and your GF / SO / POOSSLQ could spend more quality time together riding then lower your expectations a bit, put it in a lower gear and raise your cadence to save your knees, and enjoy a more leisurely pace.

2. Give-it-up: It's been said that a tandem will make a good relationship better and put an end to a bad one quickly. If you think the problems on the tandem aren't indicative of other communication and compromise challenges that will lie ahead, don't risk damaging the relationship over a tandem.

3. Step-up-your-game: Communication and making compromises is they key to success as a tandem team. Like most serious pursuits, both partners must remain focused on the goals that you have established as being indicative of success, be they time together, meeting fitness goals, performance achievements, etc... However, to hit a goal you must first decide what that goal is, hence, communication before, during, and after the ride is critical. Here's a link to a recent posting from a thread in January that may offer some encouragement for working through it and stepping up to the role of "coach" for your team: https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...24&postcount=7

From a "technical standpoint" there are also some things that you may want or need to look at.

- When you posted a photo of your KHS it did not appear as though you or your stoker were using any clips and straps or a clipless pedal system. While you can certainly ride a tandem without them, just as you can any other bike, it significantly hampers your ability to truly become an efficient "team".

- You may have noticed a great deal of 'discussion' being dedicated to the subject of "out-of-phase" vs. "in-phase" crank positions. Given the disparity that seems to exist in your and your stoker's riding styles and perceived level of effort let me suggest that you move your cranks 90 degrees out-of-phase, with your cranks leading. This will allow your stoker to have more feedback from her pedalling efforts and eliminate the feeling that her feet are merely chasing yours while, at the same time, putting her feet in a position where they rob less energy from your power stroke. This will definitely help on the hills and, over time, you may be able to transition back to "in-phase" as your collective fitness and cycling form become more compatible.

- As mentioned earlier, if you're blowing your knees out you need to heed SDS' suggestion to use shorter gears and a higher cadence. While maintaining a cadence of 90+ is probably unrealistic for many recreational teams, never mind newbies, you do want to stay somewhere in the high 70's to high 80's. If you find your cadence falling into the low 60's when you're climbing, you really need to shift gears. This again harkens back to the need to put some type of shoe & pedal retention system on both your and your stoker's pedals.

Eurastus

The Geek, as always, speaks the truth.

I am in a similar situation to yourself, being a much more experienced rider with four inexperienced occasional stokers who all pull much less than their own weight, to one extent or another. I have chosen the Geek's option #1, because I HIGHLY value the time we spend together out on our tandem.

When I want to really move, turn in a quick century time, and/or have fun with a bunch of the fast boys/girls of the local club, I take one of my single bikes.

When I want to spend quality time with the family, I get out the tandem and cajole one of the three kids (or even occasionally the wife) to go out; we then usually ride either alone or with several of the neighborhood leisure-style cyclists who match our much slower pace.

When alone, on a single bike, I usually cruise at 17 to 18 mph; in a fast group, for example during a recent century ride we completed in 5:08 (stops included), it's generally 23 to 24 mph for extended periods.

However, on the tandem I'm very happy if we can keep an average of 14 to 15 mph on flat rides. I do the majority of the work, and my legs can really feel it when we're back at home.

For example, two weeks before the 5:08 century, I took the tandem on a flat century. The first 40 miles were with the 10 year old on the back and the remaining 65 with the 12 year old. We finished in 9:46 and I was totally exhausted. With the quick group, I spent all 5 hours staring at the rear brake of the rider in front of me in the paceline. With the tandem, we talked about the hawk on the power pole, the funny way the sun shown through the trees onto the pavement, and the goofy group of teenagers that must have passed us at least six times (can't imagine spending as much time at the rest stops as they obviously did).

Guess which ride I had more fun on? Here's a hint...it's also the ride that gave me the best workout, by far.

stapfam

One of the things about Tandem riding is compromise. Whenever I have a new Rider on the Tandem- Stoker or Pilot- I point out that the stoker takes the lead on Cadence- Gear changes- effort put in and Energy used. It is not easy being a new Tandem rider or a new team and it takes time before that team starts to work. IF One of you (You by the sound of things) starts putting in a lot more power to cover the weaker rider- or run at a cadence not suitable for the other rider or go in a gear that the other cannot pull. Then the team will not work.

On our team- I am the weaker rider but when we strated- The pilot came down to my level. I told him when to change gear- what cadence I felt comfortable at and I asked him to tell me when more power was needed. In return- it took 2 or 3 rides and we started to work together. Far better than the other idiots I had that used a cadence too high- Pulled too high a gear that I was not comfortable with, and we stopped walking uphills.

Talk to each other- find out when one is uncomfortable and compromise. It may be slower for a couple of rides- but when you do get working- So does the Tandem.

DBC Steve

This is an excellent thread -- thanks much to the OP and the respondents. I will print this out and show it to others who have had the same thoughts and experiences.

zonatandem

Communicate! Spin (don't push)! Try 90 degrees OOP! Stop for a coffee/break!

stapfam

Hoping this will work- But I wrote an article for the UK Tandem magazine several years ago aimed at beginners on Tandems. It may help some of the new teams trying to work.

zonatandem

Stapfam: great article!
Most of the applications from your off-roading work just as well on the tarmac.
Re-inforces the mantra:Communicate! Patience!

NewbieIATandem

I have to echo the tone of a couple of the other posters. Look at why you ride the tandem. If it is to go fast, maybe you need a different stoker. If you are tandeming to spend time with a particular stoker, you have to learn compromise.

If the captain is riding for enjoyment AND the stoker is riding for enjoyment you will succeed.
If the captain is riding for speed AND the stoker is riding for speed you will succeed.
If the captain is riding for speed and the stoker is riding for enjoyment, you will neither go fast nor enjoy it.

regomatic

Heed the opinions of others posted above and find the happy medium where you and your stoker become "one with the bike".

Stoker/Navigator Michele was not a cyclist before we tried our first tandem. I thought it would probably be best to get her used to the miles first and then work on the speed later. Our first ride was a half hour of practice for both of us, just starting and stopping.

Then we did ten miles, then twenty something, then more. We did a metric five weeks after her first day on the bike. It wasn't very fast and the last ten miles weren't very pretty. Two years later, we can pull 20-22 on the flats on a good day with no wind for more than a couple of miles, and can sprint close to 30 for a minute or so. Our best metric average is 19.2 hanging with a well managed pack.

Don't push her too hard until she is more comfortable with the distance and I'll bet the effort and speed increases at some point later.

twilkins9076

The words of wisdom above are right on, but I'll add my own two cents worth....

You say you've had the tandem for two months, but don't give us an indication of the mileage you've put on it. My guess is that it is somewhere quite a bit under 1000 miles. If your stoker is an inexperienced rider, she is still learning, and unless she was already very fit from other activities, her level of fitness is probably not at the level that yours is. Give her time!

For what it's worth, I can always tell when Pam is tired, or is simply having an off day. In those cases, as captain, I simply continue my efforts to make her time on the bike a pleasure. We did a 50 miler yesterday, and because of the strong winds, most of the ride was not real fun. We considered it successful, however, because of two things. First, we found a new place to have lunch in a small town about 25 miles from home. Secondly, we both got to spend several hours with our favorite person in the whole world.

When we got home, Pam took a nap and I fired up the smoker to cook some catfish. All in all, a great day!

BikeManDan

Thank you all for your input, it is appreciated. I am new to this whole game and know that there is much wisdom amongst the group here.

I ride clipless on the tandem while the stoker still uses platforms. I do agree it would be better if she rode clipless as well but its still a learning process. In time Id like to get to that point. I got her shoes and pedals, just yet to break them in.
I think that OOP may be something worthwhile to try. I'm going to set that up.

The reason I'm riding isn't necessarily for absolute speed, but I do like to keep pace. A big reason I became interested in a tandem was that my girlfriend and I already rode singles together everyday but my pace was much quicker and I would pull ahead too often. I guess ultimately I still have the pace issue but at least now I know where she is at all time Our cycling is mostly for utilitarian reasons and not so much recreation. We both commute by bike on our singles but take the tandem when we need to go somewhere long distance.
So my reason for riding is dual: I want to get our task/errand accomplished but I also want to enjoy the time together and the conversation

zzzwillzzz

Eurastus said pretty much everything i wanted to say.

i had a meltdown one day similar to yours. we were in the middle of a group ride and on some small hills we were having problems staying with the front of the group. i pulled out of the group and headed towards home. we stopped and it wasn't pretty and the problem was all mine and my expectations. after all this was a group that on my road bike i would have no problem pulling the group all day long. but i failed to realize how much we'd improved as a team and how much progress we'd made. early on in those group rides i had no expectations and we would ride our own pace. a few months later we were able to stay with the front of the group on flat roads and expected more and more and was asking for way too much too soon. it was very nearly the end of tandeming for us.


i've been riding and racing for over 20 years and over 150,000 miles, my wife has hardly ridden at all. we've been riding our tandem for a little more than a year. the best thing to happen to me was to not replace the battery on the fight deck computer. i always tried not to look at the speed but always did and felt bad that we were so slow, especially cuz tandems are supposed to be fast. then i would push myself to go faster and push very hard to get our speed up to the detriment to our form. with out the computer i now ride at the speed that feels right instead of the number that i feel we should be going.

work on form and forget about speed. i have to remember that it takes me a long time to get back into shape when i've stopped riding and i have a lot of years of cycling in my legs so it's much tougher for her who is learning to be a cyclist and get in shape.

RickinFl

One thing to remember is that you are now a part of a team- this is important. It takes time and patience for teamwork to develop.

I was a long-time tandem captain when I took on my current stoker (who had no cycling experience at all) four years ago. One of the great pleasures that I have experienced is the beauty of following her progress and development as she learned and became a seasoned, competent and avid cyclist (She's blind, and only rides with me, so I've been witness to the entire process).

Also wonderful has been the experience of developing as a team with her. We go fast and have great fun now, but even after more than four years, I notice refinements appearing in our technique. It's a process that I expect to continue far into the future, and one that I look forward to with a great deal of anticipation.

The bottom line is that if you want to learn to ride a tandem, you should probably leave your ego at home and focus on becoming as a team. Learning to leave ego out of it is one of the harder parts of the process for a guy, and I admit that I sometimes find myself in the grip of testosterone poisoning, but fortunately not to often these days because it keeps me from seeing the really important and beautiful parts of being a tandem team.

Rick

GailB

First, wear a heart rate monitor, so that you can point out your HR nearing 200.

To a beginning stoker, if the captain made this suggestion to me, I would be P.O.'d.

Riding a tandem is team work, and if one rider is experiencing difficulty, then the team needs to address it. You could start by asking how she enjoys tandeming. If she enjoys it, the two of you can make some adjustments to make it work, but if she doesn't like it (and hasn't made this known before), this may be one reason it feels like you're doing all the work. Hopefully, this is just a little bump in the road.

Gail

Dennisj

In the interim, get some pedals with toe clips. My wife -stoker- uses clipless but I still like my toe clips with Topsiders. . . yes, my feet are always in Topsiders or bare and I take a lot of kidding.

But I tested a bike (way beyond my budget) Sunday at the shop and the biggest thing I missed was the toe clips. (Just had platforms for the test).

Riding a tandem requires communication - and compromise -- sort of like the guy on the new program this season - I think it's 'Rules of Engagement' --

"My wife wanted a cat so we compromised . . . . we got a cat."

Doggus

Suck it up is what I did. We have aspirations to be fast. It will never happen with our current weight situation. 'Fortunately' our tandem became incapacitated for [going on] several months. We were forced to ride singles for a while now which has opened my stokers eyes. We now call the tandem my secret weapon.
Train on the tandem...go beat the crap out of your peers on the single. I never suffer on the single like I suffer on the tandem. I can't wait to get it back, I feel like I've lost my edge from last fall.

Hermes

Further to Gail's point, there are always two sides to a story and we have one side. Niether side is necessarily wrong or right and both can be right. OP, you are in a tough spot. Even the suck it up may be a disaster . Gail is wise.

zonatandem

Hang in there, it gets better!

Michel Gagnon

To the original poster:

Rather than complain to your wife, I think you should wonder why both of you are riding a tandem. You stated your reasons, but what about hers? Does she want some hard training, some exercise, or does she prefer to enjoy the scenery or to talk with you all the time? If she prefers the more laidback approach, maybe you should alternate between fast rides on your single and more leasurely rides on your tandem?

On the other hand, there might be a few specific items that are problematic and that could be cured.

1. She might be fighting against an uncomfortable position.

2. One or both of you might have a non-circular pedal motion. Your knee problem suggests it is a possibility. With my daughter, I solved the problem by putting her cranks 2 notches ahead of mine; that way, shen she finishes her downstroke and stops, I'm not at the end of my downstroke (and it hurts), but rather I'm still pushing effectively.

3. She might still be weary of the speed you reach on the tandem. If she's used to travel at 10-12 km/h max., she might need to build up confidence before accepting to ride at a faster speed. Indeed, when you reach 25-30 km/h, she might instinctively go to "cruising mode" because that used to be a speed she hardly made except downhill.

4. She might be afraid if, for instance, you ride too close to trees, cement blocks, guardrails, etc.

djembob02

While there are times when it really gets to me, I usually don't mind that I work much harder on the tandem. I almost exclusively ride our triplet. I am either pulling my 37-lb daughter who doesn't really push the 60lb bike all that much or I am riding with both her and my wife who is light but not very athletic. For the first 15 minutes, I feel like I'm on a single with extra power. I have tried to get my wife to slow down in the beginning, but the bottom line is she doesn't have much stamina. She is beginning to work out so hopefully this will change some, but after about 15 minutes, right about when the first hill starts, its largely up to me.

Sometimes I ask for a little extra effort, but this is said with the assumption that they are both already working hard (even if they're not). I will say, "can you all give me a little extra to get over this hill," or "push real hard for a minute so we can catch these riders." Regardless, try to have a lot of fun and don't worry if you go real slow, its not a race. What's funny is when I congratulate my stoker(s) on doing such a great job on the hill, and one or both of them say something like "I wasn't really pushing." I respond by saying that's OK, they kept their legs moving and we made it up together.

Another thing that really helps is to develop a relationship with some slower riders. We ride with a group almost all the time. When I ride without my rear stoker, I keep with the fast pack, but with my wife, we slow down and ride with some slower riders, but that's great because we know them and chat while we ride. Its a little different culture but no less fun.

If that doesn't work, be egocentric and consider that my body fat % dropped from 16 to 6 after riding the triplet for a while. The calves will gain definition very quickly and you'll fly on the single.

Good luck!

Bobby

mlwschultz

You're not going to ride a tandem like you ride a single. They are different bikes. You need to work as a team (so leave the single mindset at home), stoker needs complete trust in the captain (different experience for her too as she's used to being in control of her single). Try agreeing on goals before you set out (ex. let's try to get to x by xx:xx), make it an enjoyable trip, stop for a break, lunch, etc. Communicate! If she needs a different gear, etc., work with her. If she's slowing down, maybe she's tired & it's a good time to coast for a minute, or take a break, etc. My captain also tells me when he needs more from me. We can be pedalling along at a comfortable speed (usually 18-20 mph), but if he wants to speed up for any reason, he may just say - let's go - could be to get ahead of that another bike that's coming up behind us (singles will have to work really hard to catch us on the flats), or to get away from certain cars, make it through a green light, etc. Sometimes he'll just say - turbo - then I really speed up. Or we'll try to make it up a hill without changing gears, etc. Challenge yourselves, but for short distances, then you can take a breather. We've been riding a tandem for about 4 years now & need very little communication re: changes on the bike. He never tells me he's changing gears, braking, hitting a bump, etc. It all becomes instinctive & no communication is necessary. You need time to work together to make sure you are both enjoying your rides. I don't ride a single anymore, so all my riding is as stoker, and a nice bike ride on the tandem is like a gift from the captain.