stassy

Maybe this would be better in "commuting," not sure, but I'm looking for a low rider rack for the front wheel on my '88 Terry-style Miyata 615, which has a 24" front wheel, that I'll use for bikepacking trips. I've come across the Tern Spartan which I'm told only fits onto specific braze-ons. Wondering if anyone else has had any luck either finding a specific rack ready to use (ideally available in Canada) or has used a different rack without problems? Two that seem to be available are the Axiom Journey II or there's a used vintage Blackburn rack with the standard loop over the front wheel posted, but I haven't been able to find specific info about whether either might work on a 24" wheel.

I can post pics of my fork if needed, only not since I have to convert the photo format and I should be working right now!

Thanks for any help!

djb

Hey there west coast miyata person. I still have a vintage Blackburn, if you want, I'll check it out on a neighbours kids bike, which I think is a 24in bike.

What panniers would you have? Use?

djb

If really doing bikepacking, I'd be inclined to use a higher up rack, to avoid panniers hitting the ground.
but comes back to what panniers you'll be using.

stassy

Oh hey again! I think I'd prefer the lower rider style rack if possible, to help cut down the likelihood of twitchiness/wobble. I have a pair of older, smaller ortlieb panniers that I think must be the 12.5 L ones (bought used), which my partner has been using on his old blackburn front rack without any problems. If you have one handy and there's a way to try it without me having to remove his (he didn't have an easy time finding the right fork gear) or having to buy the one up the peninsula, that would be great!

djb

Re the older ortliebs, I don't see how they work on a Blackburn unless you modify it. Mine, and the knockoff versions we used to see, have a vertical metal part welded to the top rail (for rigidity and the holes in it is where you mount it into the fork) but this thing stops the "encircling" thing that the ortlieb attachment system does too a rack rail.

I considered drilling out some other holes to allow the ortilebs to properly attach, but we have old panniers with simple hang on system like all panniers were back then, and lots still are.

I maybe didn't word it right, I do want to keep my Blackburn rack, but if I can today and see the neighbours, ill look at how it would ride on a 24in fork.

I assume the miyata has mount holes in the mid fork? How many inches from the ground is the mount hole.? And also think of distance from mid mount hole to the lower mount hole at end of fork....

Tourist in MSN

I tried to put a hoop style Blackburn rack on my 24 inch Airnimal, but the fork blades were too thick to work with the U bolts that came with the Blackburn rack. I did not have any tours planned where I needed a folding bike, so I lost interest in trying to get that sorted out, but I suspect I could have done it with larger U bolts from the hardware store.

So, I suspect you can make the Blackburn work.

The panniers would likely be one inch closer to the ground than they are on my 26 inch bike with a low rider rack, you should not have any problems but you will have to make sure you do not ride near any curbs on the sides of streets. Your pedals of course keep you far from curbs, but sometimes in tight spots you might think you can coast close to a curb, and that is when you could have a pannier and curb problem.

And later I figured out that I could make a different rack work, although not a low rider rack. So, I have completely lost interest in trying to make a low rider work on my Airnimal.

Good luck.

ClydeClydeson

I have Axiom (marketed by Norco in Canada) low-rider front rack. I have mine mounted on a 700c fork, but the way it mounts does not appear to be dependant on wheel size.

THe vertical location of the racks is determined by the lower mounting point - an eyelet on the fork near the axle - and the bottom of the rack goes a few inches below the mounting point. My smallish panniers are roughly level with the bottom of the rack frames. On a 24" wheel this is going to be a bit lower (lets call 700c nominally 28" in diameter, so only 2" higher at the axle than a nominally 24" diameter wheel) but I don't think this is likely to cause a problem unless you are doing screaming fast tight turns, like racing in a criterium, with your paniers mounted.

If you can touch your knee to the ground while cornering like a motorcycle racer then there might be an issue. For the type of riding done by us mortals there should not be a problem.

djb

as she did specifically say "bikepacking" trips, this could easily include single track and much rougher terrain, where the possibility of catching / snagging the panniers on stuff is much higher.
But riding on a regular old dirt road will be fine, and only she knows what sort of bikepacking surfaces she'll be on, or maybe just use common sense and eyeball how low the panniers are and be more careful in certain situations--probably will work out if the ortliebs can mount properly on the rack, which I kinda question how they can given the design of the top rail, unless you modify it a bit.

stassy

Thanks! I'll keep this one in mind.

I've noticed all of the Axioms I've seen are listed for 26" or 28"s, but it's true maybe it would work anyway. Do you have the Journey DLX (1?) or 2? They seem to be super different shapes which has stumped me a little, lol.
DLX - https://www.axiomgear.com/products/r...-dlx-lowrider/
Journey 2 - https://www.jvbike.com/axiom-journey...ront-rack.html (this is what my LBS has in stock)

Pics of the panniers and rack in question attached, as well as of my fork! No worries, I understood about your rack and offer, if you considered it next to the neighbour's bike, that would be helpful. Re: the panniers, I wonder if maybe we're just talking about different racks seeing as they work okay on the black Blackburn rack on my partner's bike (orange with the hammered fenders). Unfortunately, no mid-fork holes on my Miyata. Kinda surprising since it has a lot of other mounting holes and braze-ons.

Duly noted about the care around curbs, and I am certainly not one to be going screaming fast around corners so should be fine
In terms of roads and trails, it's a real mix of decent paving, potholed and gravelly paving, gravel, dirt trails, and so on - but nothing super narrow, so that should be okay too.




two styles of 12.5 L ortliebs - bought a set of 4 off a guy who I think must have used them 10-20 years ago, from what he said.

Blackburn rack on my partner's bike.

ClydeClydeson

I think I have the Journey DLX 1, the square frame, not the 'Z' shaped single continuous tube type.

Tourist in MSN

Those Ortlieb hooks would not play well with the Blackburn rack because the Blackburn has that extra aluminum sheet below the bar, the clamping mechanism on the Ortlieb panniers would not clamp under it.

There are lots of cheaper panniers that use a bunge cord to hold the panniers down on the rack with plain hooks on the top, such panniers are better suited for the Blackburn rack.

If the Blackburn is the only thing that works for you, the simple solution would be a pair of cheaper front panniers with cheap hooks and bunge cord.

Rick

So my bike has 26" wheels, The OPs bike has 24" wheels. Is 1" lower that much of a problem. Tubus racks work with Ortlieb panniers. Get the Tubus Tara and their mounting kit for forks without eyelets. Or get the Tubus Grand Expedition front rack. It has both high and low pannier mounting points. I am also under the impression that a non low rider rack would work without twitching of the bike.

djb

hey Rick, just realize that a tubus Tara + mounting kit for us canucks is well well over 200 bucks, and even though I'm a old geezer old enough to be this young ladies dad, I remember oh so well being that age, and frankly, spending 200+ smackeroos on only a front rack is just plain bonkers.

re a non low rider rack, comes down to how much actual weight, and the specific bike, but yes could work fine.

stassy

It's true, plus I'm a student, so I'm buying used wherever I can.

Thanks! Interesting that I really can't find much info on the Z shaped ones.

They have been okay so far on two trips, but noted that maybe I'll look into the security of those just to be safe! We mostly ended up with 4 of the 12.5 L Ortliebs by accident (my partner got them and hadn't confirmed the size but took them anyway). So we may sell two off and could go to the cheap, light ones if needed, have some flexibility there.

thanks all!

fishboat

With respect to the Axiom DLX lowriders..we've used these on several tours and they've been working well. No issues at all, plenty stable to 15+ pounds(total) up front in panniers. The addition of the fabricated hoop is key though I think. I'd not use them without it. Making the hoop is very simple, inexpensive(a few $), and requires minimal tools(1/2 inch steel bar from a box store, a hack saw to cut it to length, something round to bend the bar (I used a 4 inch PVC plumbing elbow), drill a couple holes, and 5mm SS bolts/nuts as needed. Some primer & black spray paint is a good idea.

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...ront-rack.html

djb

First of all, sorry but neighbours weren't in when I was, then I've had to go out of town for a few days.
I'd suggest just measuring distance to ground from your bikes fork low eyelet and also measure your partner's black Blackburn to see where the bottom of rack would end up. Then of course take into account how far past that the bottom of the panniers would go down.

The red ortliebs on the left have that hook and stretchy rubber strap setup. My first ever ortliebs have that, bought in 93 or 94, and while the strap thing slips a bit on its tightening adjustment thing, they still work amazingly enough.

As noted, you really want the excellent ortlieb encircling system to do it's thing on the top rail of a rack. Stops panniers from jumping off with bumps, which is a real pain in the behind, plus can go into your wheel and ruin your day, wheel, crash, blah blah blah
You might be able to do the modify thing of drilling out some material on that sheet to allow the hook to go around.
Waterproof panniers are worth it, so consider option if they actually mount ok on the Blackburn.

danielfng

Do you remember which front rack ended up working for your airnimal? I am looking for one, preferably a flat rack, for my 24” Joey.

Tourist in MSN

My Joey is the older rim brake version, not disc version. Airnimal makes, or maybe used to make (?) a front low rider rack for the disc version.

The Racktime Foldit Adjustable. I had to fabricate my own bracket to hold the chainstay mounts to the fork crown. I never used it, once I got to the point in the photo where I realized it was possible, I started planning my tour. And once I discovered that the logistics of my planned tour were just tooooooo complicated, I gave up on that trip. These photos are six years old.

So, the photo is as far as I got.



I bought two of the same rack, the rack on the rear needed the extra long optional chainstay rods.



I never got to the point of loading up a pair of panniers to see how stable the rack was, so I can't give you a lot of confidence that these are tour worthy, just possible.

This is the details on that rack:
https://www.racktime.com/en/racktime-products/system-carriers/racktime-product/foldit-adjustable
https://www.racktime.com/fileadmin/u...stable_4.0.pdf

Apparantly some of their racks were re-designed and have a 2.0 version, I am not going to research that, mine are the older ones.

Note the bottom plate has several different holes where you can adjust the height of the rack above the frame moungting points. I used the tallest and the shortest when I setup the front which you can see in the photo if you check that out. I set up the rear using the tallest because I was concerned that my pannier would not play well with my Dual Drive Clickbox on the end of the drive side axle, but if it was not for that a lower position would have made more sense in the back.

I think it is clear that the front center of gravity of the front panniers would be quite far forward of the steering axis (a line drawn through the steerer tube), so I am sure that I would have had to keep the weight quite small up front. And with the short chainstays on that bike, the rear panniers would have a center of gravity pretty far behind the rear axle. So, handling might be less than ideal.

If you have mid-fork rack mounts on yours, the Racktime Topit rack would make good sense, but my front fork lacked the mid-fork rack mounts.

danielfng

Thanks for this very detailed response. My Joey has disc brakes, but only on the front, and no mid-fork mounts. Not sure I could fabricate my own bracket so I might see if I can get away with something like the Tubus LM-1 Mounting Set combined with a rack designed for mid-fork eyelets. Maybe the Topit or something with a larger flat base like the Specialized pizza rack.

Cheers.

staehpj1

Two things come to mind...

One is that you might consider that the front panniers will already be lower due to the smaller front wheel even without low rider racks. Also lots of people use regular non-low rider racks with no shimmy/wobble issues. Just something to factor in.

Also you say "bikepacking" That usually means using rackless bags to many or even most here. It tends to imply some significant off road or at least dirt road component to the ride. Are you using the term "bikepacking" very broadly do you just mean bike touring? It kind of sounds like maybe you just mean bike touring when you say you want front low rider racks.

Tourist in MSN

This is the Joey front rack for disc brakes.



Not platform, but it might be something you can work with. I wish it worked with canti post brakes, but does not.
https://airnimal.co/products/accessories/#.YnKh48vMKUk

I do not know if you can fold the bike with that rack on it. It might be an issue.