davei1980

the toilet ring makes my wax pretty sticky stuff

davei1980

I think the wax will get where it needs to be once the air bubbles quit emerging from the hot wax

veets

Well, I cleaned and waxed three chains successfully. I don't know if it made a difference or not, but I did use the heated ultrasonic bath for doing the wax too. It took a while to melt the wax, but once it was melted it got good and hot (almost 100C).
I hope the wax comes out clean as a block when it solidifies. If it does, I might have a crockpot to get rid of...

I was a little disturbed about how much dirt came off my old chain!

Also, I was pretty surprised that the mineral spirits didn't dissolve off all the grease from the new chains I cleaned. After soaking and sonicating for about a half hour, a lot of grease came off of the chain onto a rag. Makes me wonder if there's more grease still on the insides. Maybe I'll try MEK next time.

FWIW, I put the Dupont wax-based Teflon spray onto the cassette and derailleur cogs, to help with friction there.

Racing Dan

What solvents? Paraffin wax seem fairly stubborn.

DrIsotope

Drip-applying wax will never work remotely as well as immersion in hot wax. Source: I've tried both. As far as solvent-carried wax, Squirt is pretty good, White Lightning is terrible. Melted paraffin is better.

The only thing that approached the service interval/performance of hot wax was Muc Off Extreme Hydrodynamic, which was also the key to the grimiest, gnarliest drivetrain ever. Turned anything that even looked at it jet black.

masi61

I had the same idea of heating water in my 3.5 gallon Prosonix ultrasonic cleaner. I set a Pyrex quart size container in the hot water bath. I put 1/2 pound of molten speed wax granules in the Pyrex container. Like your experience, it took a while for the wax to melt. My heater is adjustable, I noticed that when left on high with the lid on the tank, the temperature gets pretty hot. I think I’m going to stick a candy thermometer in there and check. I did 2 used chains so far but have yet to road test them. With time the wax did melt fully and I left it in the ultrasonic for several cycles, flipping the chain using a spoke and swishing it to help penetrate the interior (hopefully).
I had the same experience as you (when trying to clean the chain) with noticing how much crud came off the chain into the mineral spirits. I tried an experiment and again used the hot water bath/ultrasonic and put the dirty chain in a container with clean mineral spirits and ran several 20 minute cycles. For 1 thing I would say that other than some fumes, nothing exploded - haha...
But I did have to decant off dirty mineral spirits 3 or 4 times until I was happy. The detailed instructions on the Molten Speed Wax website suggest starting with a new chain and cleaning it really clean. I now understand why they say that. After you are satisfied the majority of dirt is gone from the mineral spirits, they recommend running it through denatured alcohol a couple of times. They say that this step is important - apparently it gets rid of mineral spirit residue. I know all this sounds anal retentive to go through so many steps but hey, it’s the winter time - the results so far are actually promising, so this may not be a waste of time!
I plan to take a coat hanger and bend it up for a better swishy tool to improve the waxing. I do believe that the ultrasonic action might have given improved penetration of the wax since I did see fizzy bubbles emanating from the wax/chain while the ultrasonic was running. As I said, I have not road tested my chain yet but will soon so I can give a future update. Molten Speed Wax give an estimate of 400 miles of riding that a chain is good for before it needs a refresher.
PS: I think that the power of the ultrasonic matters. I bought a 3.5 gallon “Prosonix” unit that is heated. It has 6 ultrasonic transducers. The power is decent but could be even MORE powerful. Putting the dirty chain directly in the hot water (without the Pyrex bowl) with simple green added MAY be as effective (or more effective) compared with mineral spirits - the jury is still out on this. Once the chain comes out of the simple green it needs to go through the denatured alcohol to push the water out. I have had some disappointing flash corrosion crop up - kind of disappointing after going through so many steps...

veets

I wonder if the number of transducers relates to the size of the ultrasonic unit? I got a little 2 liter, heated unit on ebay, and it seems pretty strong (compared to my wife's jewelry cleaner).

I did the denatured alcohol step in a Tupperware, sloshing it around the chain for a while. Just one treatment. I guess I forgot that they recommended two rounds. The ultrasonic unit specifically said no flammable solvents. I was willing to do the mineral spirits in it, under close supervision, but I thought it would be too dangerous to put denatured alcohol in it.

Did you get grease and crud wiping off on a rag, even after your last mineral spirits treatment?

Also, by the way, after I put the waxed chain onto the bike and spun the pedals a while, there was wax flaking off as expected, but also some little black bits. I cleaned the drivetrain so thoroughly that I find it hard to believe that it came from the cogs or derailleur. I'm wondering if it worked its way out of the insides of the chain. And now I'm wondering if it was a one-time event, and so I should rewax before running the bike.
Anyone else have a similar experience? By the way, this was with a new chain.

masi61

I used denatured alcohol in the ultrasonic as well. Same result - a few fumes but not bad. Just be sure to not fill the tank with the flammable solvent. Just fill the tank with water then put a container with the denatured alcohol in the basket. Now if you put gasoline or lacquer thinner in there - now that would be potentially explosive so I wouldn't go there.

I noticed all those flakes but to me you should just ride the bike and re-evaluate after you ride. I suspect it will continue to flake off and actually become a bit cleaner looking after riding it some.

I'm using the Molten Speed Wax which has additives. I suspect that these additives are what gives the wax a grey color. What is the color of the wax you are starting with? If what you are seeing on your chain is significantly darker than the wax you are starting with then my guess would be that you maybe didn't get your chain as clean as you could have.

cyccommute 

Most of the wax based lubricants use mineral spirits or a related solvent mixture. There is a limit to how much wax you can dissolve in the solvent but that limit is fairly high. Most wax based lubricants also aren't just canning wax in a solvent. They have other materials in there to modify the crystallinity of harder waxes. There is also a bit of teflon in the mixture as well as soft waxes.

Based on what metric? Using heat just makes the wax fluid. Adding solvent makes the wax fluid. Both will penetrate as well to where it is needed. I, too, have tried both. The involved process of removing the chain, melting wax, dipping chains and reinstalling is far too tedious for the short interval between applications.

Compare that to simply dripping on lubricant and letting it dry. I suspect that the mileage before the chain wears out is similar and, from my experience, the mileage between lubricant application is similar...or even slightly longer in the case of the solvent based wax lubricants. Even if the application interval was a bit shorter for solvent based wax lubricants, the convenience of application far outstrips that of hot wax.

And why do you feel White Lightning is terrible? I haven't tried Squirt so I won't comment but White Lightning hasn't had any downsides for me in nearly 20 years of use.

DrIsotope

My experience is limited to the blue-label White Lightning. The required quantity of application, combined with how short a period of time the stuff actually lasts, puts it all the way at the bottom of the list of chain lubes I've tried. I've found no other lube that lasts for fewer miles than White Lightning. it's likely fine for MTB guys who apply before every ride and put in a handful of trail miles, but I averaged almost 38 miles a day last year, and am sitting around 40 a day this year. A lube that requires daily application is not what I'm looking for.

Compared to White Lightning alone, hot wax is cheaper, cleaner, and lasts longer.

masi61

Hey, cyccommute: If White Lighting works for you, that's great. Unfortunately my experience with the White Lighting was much like DrIsotope below, so I say +1 to that.

I had so much squeaking with the White Lightning, along with massive wax build up on my derailleur pulleys - that it turned me off to wax based lubes for years. I've been using wet lube for the last 8 to 10 years with decent results but the dirtiness, need for frequent re-application and what seems to be accelerated chain wear on the KMC and SRAM chains that I have been running has made me want to try the melted wax technique.

The first time you do it, sure wax is going to take a longer time. But I suspect that with practice, this procedure will speed up considerably.

DrIsotope

^^^ This mirrors my experience exactly. Wet lubes are excellent, except for the mess. The initial application of hot wax is a bit tedious until you're used to the process (now I spend about 10 minutes every other Tuesday to do 2 bikes) and White Lightning is always terrible-- I had mentally blocked out the encrusted horror of White Lighting covered jockey wheels.

long john

30 years in use once a year love it

cyccommute 

I have only used the blue label White Lightning (now called "Clean Ride"). I don't use excessive amounts...a pint size bottle lasts for several years...nor do I find that has to be applied all that frequently. I get about 600 miles per application. When I dallied with hot wax many years ago, I found that it lasted a lot less than that.

I'll agree that the drivetrain is slightly noisier than with wet lubricants but I've never noticed it to be excessive. It's something I've gotten used to over the years. As above, I don't have to use excessive amounts of it so build up isn't that much more than build up I used to get...or I see on a regular basis at my co-op...with oil based lubricants.

As to wear, I don't see any wear that I would call excess nor do I get mileages on my chains that is shorter than most other people report.

I have done it. There isn't really any way to speed up the process even after learning how to do it. It's not that complicated a procedure although as with most chain related procedures people have a way of over-complicating it. It takes the same amount of time to melt the wax, the same amount of time to remove the chain, the same amount of time to dip the chain, and the same amount of time to reinstall it. It's a somewhat laborious procedure for a marginal gain.

I'll agree that wet lubricants are highly messy. We have a plastic box of used chains at my local co-op that has about 1/4" of oil at the bottom of the bottom. Any time you have to get into it, you'd be better off if you wore a hazmat suit.

Sorry but I'm not buying the 10 minute time frame. It takes longer than that to melt a sufficient amount of wax to dip a chain. Add in the time to remove, dip, cool and reinstall the chain and the time has to be longer than that.

You also seem to be getting a lot less mileage out of hot waxing than I get out of White Lightning. I can (I've actually measured it) go 600 to 700 miles between applications. For your daily mileage that's 2 to almost 3 weeks.

As for "the encrusted horror", that is because people try to get the same noise that they get with wet lubes by drowning out the sound of chain noise with wax lubricants. I have seen jockey wheels encrusted with wax from the over use of White Lightning but I've also see jockey wheels encrusted with near boulders from the over application of wet lubes. White Lightning really doesn't need to be applied as frequently as some people think.

veets

Good idea on the double-boiler technique. I wasn't sure about the ultrasonic treatment being effective that way, but I'll give it a try.

I'm using pure paraffin wax. I understand that MSW can have molybdenum powder in it, which gives it the grey color. I don't know whether it would rub off and stain fabrics, but I'm avoiding it to keep it clean (and simple).

Racing Dan

So what would be your recommended ingredients for a workable diy solvent based wax lube? Other than heat I have failed to find a solvent that could liquefy ordinary paraffin. I think it would be a hit if it could be accomplished with of the shelf items.

davei1980

Would kerosene work?


the hot wax method I found to be a fun and relaxing experience.

Racing Dan

No, not from my experience anyway. I have tried kerosene, OMS, denatured alcohol and benzine (white gas). None seem to work. Google suggest xylene but that, to my recollection, is nasty smelly stuff and I cant imagine xylene is what is used as a solvent in commercial wax lubes.

canklecat

Ditto, the method @DrIsotope described.

Once you set up a method it's quick, efficient and clean. I swap once a month between a pair of identical chains, KMC Z72 with Missing Links. The used chain goes into the crock pot of paraffin.

Melt the paraffin in a crock pot (I think we both use the Li'l Dipper?) and just leave it in the little pot. Plug it in at the end/beginning of the month or whatever your preferred maintenance schedule is. I do it in stages, so it's probably 10-15 minutes total spread out over a couple of days.

I don't worry about how long the chain is in the crock pot. When I'm busy I've left a chain for a few days. Doesn't hurt anything. I use hanger loops made from bent paper clips to hang and drip the chain. When it cools I coil it up and store it in a ziplock baggie for next month.

I don't worry about wiping the freshly waxed chain clean. On the first ride any excess flakes off. No accumulation on the drive train that would leave wax crumbs indoors.

That's an advantage to a leisurely soak in the crock pot. The chain gets hot so when I fish it out to drip dry most of the excess stays liquid and drips off cleanly. But a quick run through on a cool chain would cause the wax to congeal more quickly and leave more excess.

My only recent regret is swapping my road bike temporarily to a conventionally lubed chain, around late November I think. I was experimenting with chain lengths to check the effect on drive train tension -- on my '89 Centurion Ironman it felt like the tension was excessive in the largest freewheel cogs (21 and 24, I think), mostly due to the heavy tension of the cage pivot spring in the Suntour GPX derailleur, which wasn't adjustable. I wanted to experiment with adding a few links, but I happened to have an oiled chain that was already the right length. So I swapped that on.

Now I need to clean the chainrings and freewheel again before switching back to the paraffin treated chains. Just running the bike the past few weeks has made a mess of the drive train -- the city spread sand everywhere in anticipation of ice storms (which never happened).

I'd have saved more time in the long run if I'd just added a few links back to the waxed Z72 chains. The "easy" route of temporarily using an oiled chain will take more time in cleaning.

Once I switch the road bike back to waxed chains, and convert the hybrid to wax, I'm sticking with it. For our climate with only moderate wet weather it's ideal.

Racing Dan

So I tried hot waxing my chain and it sounded sort of dry after one 25 mile loop in cold damp weather? Du you cut the paraffin with oil or something? I re-waxed and mixed in 1/4 sae 30 oil I had on the shelf. Testing tomorrow.

canklecat

Some folks do prefer mixing the hard paraffin with paraffin lamp oil, which you can buy from any hardware store and some grocery stores. Google around and check YouTube for recommendations.

I've used only plain Gulf wax. I melt three bars in a Li'l Dipper crock pot, then dunk the clean chain and let it soak overnight. A couple of hours would probably be adequate. I want to be sure all the bubbles are out of the friction surfaces and the paraffin has time to penetrate.

Also, when the chain is thoroughly hot the excess wax will drip off more readily and cleanly, leaving very little external residue. When I tried just running a cold chain through the paraffin it didn't seem to penetrate and the wax cooled quickly, causing more buildup. So I prefer the long soak.

Regarding chain noise, I've found the chain to be nearly silent for the first 100 miles or so. Gradually I'll hear a bit more noise but it never sounds like the chain is dry or desperately needs to be re-waxed. I just arbitrarily chose an interval of one month or 400-500 miles to remind myself to do it near the end or beginning of every month. I use two chains so one is always ready to go.

It's difficult to judge lube intervals by chain noise alone. Every wet lube I've tried makes the chain silent for the first ride. Then it's noisier and pretty much remains audible for weeks or even months.

Tonight I'm swapping back to waxed chains on the road bike because the oiled chain I used in December-January was covered in grit from sanded streets in preparation for winter icing. That chain was new two months ago but I'll probably discard it rather than messing with trying to clean out that grit.

In contrast I'd ridden my waxed chain comfort hybrid/errand bike for months including on gritty sandy limestone trails and gravel without the chain needing any attention.

DrIsotope

I've read tale of folks using Coleman lantern fuel (white gas) to make the wax liquid. Some guys will dip the chain only once, then maintain the wax by dripping on paraffin melted in the white gas. Seems an option, but dipping it is plenty easy on it's own.

cyccommute 

First, I wouldn't bother with a DIY lubricant. Someone else did the work to come up with a mixture so why try to reinvent the wheel? I'm not against experimentation, research and development...I do it for a living...but if you are trying to save money by "sticking it to the man", you won't. You have to come up with a mixture, test it, tweak it, test it some more, ad infinitum. You'll waste a lot of materials and time testing and tweaking and, in the end, spend a whole lot more than it you just bought the commercial stuff. I could easily see spending $1000 on equipment and materials to save $15.


But, if you insist on making your own, I would start with mineral spirits. I suspect that when you have tried to dissolve the wax in the past you probably did it will a block. You should grind or shave the wax to size reduce it and dissolve smaller particles. You need more surface area because the wax is somewhat crystalline and can be slow to dissolve. A stirrer of some kind and time...perhaps lots and more if the particles are large...may also be needed.

Heat might also help but be careful! While less flammable than other solvents, mineral spirits does have a flash point of around 50°C (some mixtures can be lower). For the metrically challenged, that's 122°F which ain't the hot. Don't do it in your house. Outside would be best or, as I said above, just buy the commercial stuff.

Frankly, the whole "wax your chain" thing is kind of a case of spending a lot of money...double boilers, crockpots, elaborate cleaning schemes using expensive equipment, constant removal of the chain, etc... on a cheap part to save a few pennies. Buy cheap chains which are just as good as the expensive ones and change the chain when it wears out. All the elaborate cleaning and lubricating schemes aren't going to get you much more mileage than less elaborate schemes.

"White gas" is just petroleum naphtha which is a slightly different cut of the petroleum distillation than mineral spirits. They are so closely related as to have no effective difference in solution properties.

DrIsotope

This is good to know, as the State of California took mineral spirits (amongst other things) away from us years ago, and I ran out some time back. We can still get lantern fuel, though.

The OZ Cycles guy uses Xylene for his homebrew wax, and we can't get that either.

Racing Dan

Thanks. I tried granulating some paraffin wax (I assume .. , It was a t-light candle, but it didn't say what it was made of) and it did in fact dissolve in white gas. I haven't tested the mixtures efficacy for lubricating a chain yet, but I will. Im not about to heat flammable liquids, but thanks for the warning.

In relation to elaborate cleaning and spending a lot of money on equipment. Thats not me, at all. My fist cleaning of the chain, after using the factory lube, was shaking in a jar of OMS to get rid of the dirty grease. Now I just melt a few t-lights in a old, small sauce pan over a low gas flame, dump in the chain, swish it around for a minute, take out the chain and discard the now blackish, left over wax. This way the chain is cleaned and lubed in one go, with no cleaning chemicals involved. Honestly, it only takes a few minutes and all I have spent is 3$ on a bag of 50 t-lights. I dont think the elaborate methods with ultrasonic cleaners and crock pots, that take forever to heat up, is worth for me.

If I could find an oil that didnt stink when heated, I would add in some oil and then I could also just apply some to the chain if it sounds dry and I cant be bothered waxing it. It will then all come of in the next waxing. I remember from my youth we had castor oil for RC engines. I was thinking about getting some or an other vegetable oil. Any thoughts?