CliffordK

It looks like the Pacenti SL23 rims are no longer made.
https://pacenticycledesign.com/pages/rim-amnesty

So... a $75 discount if you buy a new pair. You could ask them if they have any NOS rims.

You can watch for NOS rims on E-Bay. I think one ended in April (can't tell if it was one or 2 rims).

Otherwise, I think you would be justified in building a matching pair of wheels (front/rear). You could source a different front hub if you wish (generator, etc) at your own cost, giving you a matching wheel to the new one being built, plus a spare.

At times I'll reuse spokes, but I think in this case I'd get all new spokes (and perhaps save a few spares).

I don't know how durable those powertap hubs are, but I'd go by the condition you see. Disassemble and look at the condition of the spoke holes.

himespau 

Yeah, I'm totally good with equivalent rims and had planned on matching whatever goes on the rear with the same on the front. I have a spare front hub that matches the rear, so, if the rear is salvageable, I can build up a front to match it and then the current front wheel will be a spare. Not that I really need another spare front wheel as I already have a nonmatching spare front wheel with a record hub, but it might come in handy some day...

himespau 

Well that sucks. I just got off the phone with the first bike shop to look at it and the rear triangle is out of alignment. He says they should be able to cold set it back, but that's going to be at least $400. And he's not sure how to value any of it because Quarq now own's Powertap and doesn't make powertap wheels anymore (hub flange is bent so not reusable) - so that means I need a new wheel and a new power-meter (can't go crank-based as I have a triple, so that means pedal-based), handbuilt european steel frame in an odd size (if I want similar, that means going custom), and then there's the scuffs to saddle and shifters and paint chips. Not going to be as simple as I'd hoped.

At the very least, the guy I worked with (he's at a generalist shop) suggested a shop for a second opinion where most of the employees ride steel bikes (several on custom european steel), so they should have a better idea on estimates.

The first thing he said was, "I don't know how to value any of this because it's all priceless. You can't replace any of it because none of it is available anymore" and then started talking how if I wanted equivalents I was looking at $6 grand plus for custom European steel frame.

I do appreciate that he found value in an classic lugged steel frame and didn't just write it off as a low end bike because it was old steel.

He did talk a little smack about how I needed to get new tape and cables because whoever had run the cables - me - had cut the brake cable/housing too short and you didn't get easy full range of motion when turning it (I don't care if the bars don't easily flop side to side to the point where the bars would hit the frame, it doesn't affect turning while riding even at low speeds), though obviously that wouldn't be covered as an accident repair.

merziac

Again, I would only trust a framebuilder for the alignment evaluation and whatever that entails, they will find any and all problems and be able to do the repair as well. I would encourage you to stand your ground, they have step up if you want to get it fixed.

CliffordK

OUCH!!!

Not unexpected. You need a local @gugie to help you with the alignment.

The powertap hubs regularly show upon E-Bay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133764844370?epid=1919269235

I think the G3 is the newest, but I'm not quite sure all the differences with the older hubs. That one says 32 holes in the title and 24 holes in the body. I think I count the equivalent of about 32 holes in the photos.

Are you riding SPD pedals? I'm not sure anybody is currently making them with power meters.... Oh, wow, does Garmin now have SPD power meters?

It is up to you. I'd probably look at whether the old hub could be repaired. But, then also price in a good used replacement powertap hub.

If you decide to upgrade to new Garmin Rally XC200 pedals + head unit, then I'd probably ask for something around $600 for the rear wheel (plus frame repair, and new tape), then pay the difference for the SPD pedals out of pocket.

himespau 

Yeah, I didn't want to do accident report and insurance (if for no other reason than time/hassle), but it's sure looking like I'm going to have to go that way. My wife was less shocked than I expected when I told her that they bike shop said that it'd be in the range of $2k to potentially replace my functionality (if they can cold set the rear triangle) and I'd still have a scuffed and scratched bike but it would be a lot cheaper than getting an equivalent replacement bike.

gugie 

Man, I don't charge enough.

I'll do it for $399

Seriously, shipping frame to and fro would cost as much or more than the actual work. @Doug Fattic is a lot closer to you, or might know someone in your area that could do the work.

himespau 

That's a good point. I believe Doug is only 30 or so minutes from where my parents live and they're coming down to visit (first time in over a year) over the Memorial day weekend. Probably couldn't get together with the insurance company that fast.

merziac

I would send the frame back with them for the definitive evaluation, you should be able to get a good handle on the rest and an in town evaluation for comparison. If you get enough, the frame will be in the right place to get repaired no matter what or not and could be sent or brought back as needed.

Doug Fattic 

I would find it very odd if the hit you took didn't throw the frame out of alignment. A frame will stay in alignment under normal riding conditions but it doesn't take that much effort to move the tubes. It certainly makes sense for your parents to bring the frame back with them to drop it off at my place. I can throw it on the table and see what the issues might be.

himespau 

You are in Niles, right? My parents are down 12 in Sturgis. Heck, if this had been a couple weeks earlier, my in-laws were down last week and they live in Elkhart.

rccardr 

Maybe I’m just a Crazy Old Coot, but my first rule when involved in an auto incident of any kind is to get a police report done. If injury is required in order to produce a report, well, my neck kinda hurts. A report can be invaluable if there’s a dispute between the parties involved.

My second rule is always -ALWAYS- get your own insurance company involved. Homeowners or auto, whichever applies to you. Let them deal with the other party and get compensated for whatever they pay you to make you whole. That’s why we have insurance. And in my experience, they will teat you better than someone else’s pocket or insurance company. Am sure there are exceptions but that’s been my experience.

Not at all a believer in letting someone pay out of pocket for making me whole. Been burned (person disappears, disavows involvement, checks bounce, etc.) won’t be burned again.

repechage

In California, that is an injury accident by description, a report must be filed.
As written elsewhere here, some protection down the road.
any insurance payout will most likely require a signature from you to release them and the driver of any further claim.
that is essentially what they are buying from you.

interesting rear hub, that a power meter of some type? If so might be best to replace it, if one rebuilds it up, and it is wonky, then what?

himespau 

Yeah, the hub is a powermeter. I do most of my riding online (on a program called Zwift where I ride on my trainer and the powermeter tells the computer how much power I'm putting out) and am on a team doing a racing series (that I've not been able to help them out the last couple races without the bike) and I need a powermeter to talk to the computer. Since the hub flange got bent over, it's trashed. Since Powertap, which makes the hubs, got bought out by Quarq which makes power-meter cranksets and discontinued the hubs as they were a cheaper competition, there are no longer any new powermeter hubs available to buy. I've had a used powertap hub (the previous owner claimed it worked but I've never tested it) in my parts bin, so I'm lacing up into a wheel, but I don't know if it'll work and, even if it does, I don't think it's fair for the fact that I have spokes, rim, and hub in my parts bin (plus my time) to mean the loss of my wheel isn't so bad as those were spares that I wouldn't have had to use if my bike weren't wrecked.

himespau 

Yeah, partly I didn't want to involve insurance because I don't know which of my insurance would be involved and didn't want to do the legwork if I could just get the cash. Plus, the woman who hit me is a 70-year old retired teacher and my mom is a retired teacher a year younger and I kept thinking of how I'd want it to work had it been my mom. But that was when I thought it was just the rim and not the whole wheel plus rear triangle. The policeman was really pushing for us not to file a report, but I think I will probably have to.

I'm just getting frustrated and ticked off as this thing drags on. I'm kind of ticked off about all the time and money I'm spending taking the bike around getting estimates for repair and trying to figure out what I'm going to do. I'm ticked off about all the time and money and effort I spent into hunting down all the parts individually and trying to get the best possible deal to build up that bike exactly as I wanted it, and, even if her insurance pays to repair it and I can find analogous parts (taking more of my time), it won't be the same. I'm ticked about knowing how I'm going to be nervous the next time I'm out on a road ride (and how my wife will be very nervous about letting me go). I'm ticked about not having my bike and being able to race (or even ride) right now. I made a commitment to help my team in races and it frustrates me that I'm not holding up my end (even though they understand).

I know it's petty, but the lady told me that she wouldn't be available to contact for the next couple days because she was going to Alaska to visit her grandkids, so she gets to have a vacation and I'm doing extra work and not able to do what I do for relaxation because of her actions and that kind of ticks me off even though I don't know what she would have done had she not gone. It wouldn't have magically gotten my bike fixed and back to me in pristine condition. Just super frustrated. Sorry for venting, but it makes me want to be able to get my bike as close to as it was (or replace it with something similar) and don't want to have to be responsible for paying to get that done. Classic steel race bikes with modern components are just not something you can buy off the rack.

Doug Fattic 

Yes I am in Niles. Sturgis and Elkhart are not too far away. In a perfect world you could bring it yourself and see what might or might not need to be done.

CliffordK

Any person operating a vehicle on the highways of this state who is involved in an accident resulting in any property damage exceeding five hundred dollars ($500) in which an investigation is not conducted by a law enforcement officer shall file a written report of the accident with the Department of Kentucky State Police within ten (10) days of occurrence of the accident upon forms provided by the department.

So, you could ask the woman for $499, not file any reports, and be done with it.

Or, a report gets filed with the state, insurance gets contacted, etc.

himespau 

Yeah, the first estimate I had said that, if they just muscled it back into allignment (checking frequently with their frame alignment gauge), replaced the wheel, got me a new powermeter and did nothing else about scuffs/scratches to components/saddle/etc. and maybe got me a new tire/tube, I'd be in the $2k range. I'll e-mail the lady to give her a heads up and then file a report. When I was at the second shop, they were giving me a hard sell on hiring a lawyer. I really hope I don't have to go that path. We'll see how my aches do and if I have to see a doctor (or how the insurance company responds). Apparently, once I have a case-file number I contact her company directly.

jackbombay

They do, $1200!

jackbombay

In the 4th photo you just make out a 32 stamped into the flange of the hub.

CliffordK

You pay half as much if you only get a half a power meter.

I have a power meter on order from Indiegogo. Initially it was supposed to be a bolt-in power meter for whatever pedals, then they chose to make a SPD (MTB) and a SPD-SL (or Look) style power meter.

But, dang, their progress has been slow. I put the order in over 3 years ago before there were any official SPD based power meters. A lot of water under the bridge since then.

I may look back at the new Garmin. Unfortunately they seem to have MAP pricing, so everyone has the same price.

merziac

@himespau

While I applaud your thinking of this person like you would want your Mom treated, she has lost that by blowing you off. Unfortunately this is one of those things where people don't get it and want to say it's just a bicycle, whats the big deal? You could have been hurt really bad or worse, reports of this same thing are becoming more and more prevalent and many of them end with, pedestrian, cyclist, other car, store front, garage, killed, severely maimed, destroyed and worse. She also blew you off with the wanting to settle out of pocket, this benefits no one but her and in a huge way. The cop should have issued a citation and a report so you could get this resolved more quickly.

My collision on the bike was a hit and run and I was lucky like you as it was a glancing blow, I could have been run over. The last one before that was in my Escape, a guy turned into me from the right lane next to me, exchanged info, cop came, no report. I have liability only and it was on him anyway. He refused to file with his insurance so I was stuck but mine said to keep them in the loop and contact them immediately if his ins.or lawyer tried to contact or threaten me so they were involved, they just weren't going to fix my vehicle. He refused to work with his company so about 6 mos. goes by and they call me, ask to meet at their body shop, they looked at it, estimated and paid me right there. He had hired lawyers to fight his company and they finally got him handled and settled with me. I'm pretty sure that having my ins. in the background helped to get them there.

Again, and like rccardr, would encourage you to get your ins. onboard as they will want to protect their interest if you are hurt and it gets worse later, they will keep the other ins. honest or at least accountable.

And trust me, I know exactly how you feel, my bike that was totaled was very special and I scoured, scrimped, dug, and agonized over every part and detail then had to turn around and do it all over again. Still ongoing but coming down the home stretch, finally.

himespau 

Thanks for the advice all. My lower back ache isn't going away, so I'm finally following the advice to see my doctor. I thought it was just a little tweek and some swelling (to go along with the purple bruise on my glute from the nose of the saddle), but it's still affecting me, so I'm probably going to try to get a referral back to my physical therapists. They did a good job with me 18 months ago after some major knee surgery.

jackbombay

A chiropractor can check that your hips are still in alignment, I've been dealing with a bunch of hip issues and my right hip was all out of wack, I didn't realize that hips could be crooked, but they can.

I do not get the classic "back cracking" adjustments from the chiro I've seen, she "reset" my hips with a special table that drops a couple of inches while applying pressure to my hip, this has helped me notably. my legs were close to 1" different in length at my toes when laying on my stomach from all tension and crooked that I was carrying in my hips...

A good PT guy is also worth some serious coin!

himespau 

One of the two PT guys that I saw for my knee commuted on his bike to work rain or shine every day, so I'd trust him to know what it took to get my back/core back into shape. I wasn't riding at the time, so he didn't have riding specific exercises for me, but he's probably my first choice of a response.