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Need help with stuck crank arm bolt

Old 03-04-21, 10:35 PM
  #1  
speedyspaghetti
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Need help with stuck crank arm bolt

Hey everyone -

So I found a vintage Trek 820 Mountain Track by a dumpster today that I would like to refurbish. Surprisingly, the bike is in pretty decent shape, but I wanted to make sure that I could actually get it apart before committing to buying new parts and stuff.

So I tried to get the crank bolts out and while the non-drive side one came out without any issue, the drive side one is completely stuck in there. I'm doing it by myself so maybe having a friend come over would help, but so far I'm stuck. I've tried putting all my strength into it with a piece of pipe over the opposite crank arm, but the bolt started to strip a bit (more so because I was having a hard time keeping all of my strength on both sides while keeping the socket flush against the bolt), the bolt is still ok, but I don't want to strip it further.

I've sprayed some Liquid Wrench on it, although I haven't really given it more than 15 minutes to work in there. I've tried tapping the bolt with a hammer a few times, and I tried heating it up with my MAAP torch, but I'm getting the crank arm hotter than the bolt which I'm pretty sure would make it harder to get off instead of easier. I do have a big Milwaukee M18 electric impact wrench in my storage unit I could grab tomorrow, but would that be a terrible idea? I fear I would have a hard time holding the opposite crank arm while using the impact, or would the hammering motion prevent me from having to do so? Any other ideas?

Thanks everyone!

Photo of the culprit:

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Old 03-04-21, 10:40 PM
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Two person job I reckon
Seeing as you've soaked, it really is just a matter of force.
Once person holds the tool avoids it camming out. The other strikes it with a hammer or uses a long pipe.
You will get it.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:41 PM
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Some heavy blows with a hammer might crack it too
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Old 03-04-21, 10:42 PM
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Those need to be fairly tight to begin with and they've been there for 25-ish years. Make sure you have a tight-fitting socket on the bolt. It's a little odd that you say the bolt's beginning to strip- I wonder if you're using a cheap wrench.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:45 PM
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Do you have a 6 point socket? Highly recommended if your 12 point is starting to slip. Or general fasteners that are tight.
I flip the bike over, hold the pedal with one hand pushing down and my cheater bar on the other, pushing down. Crank arms with about 150-160 degree angle between them. Kind of what "feels" best.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Soody
Two person job I reckon
Seeing as you've soaked, it really is just a matter of force.
Once person holds the tool avoids it camming out. The other strikes it with a hammer or uses a long pipe.
You will get it.
How would I best how the opposite crank in that situation? I just tried right now with my girlfriend standing on the opposite pedal while I go at it with a socket on a breaker bar and I just end up lifting her off the ground.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
Those need to be fairly tight to begin with and they've been there for 25-ish years. Make sure you have a tight-fitting socket on the bolt. It's a little odd that you say the bolt's beginning to strip- I wonder if you're using a cheap wrench.
Somewhat ironically my 12-pt sockets are way nicer (USA made Craftsman) than my 6-pt new DeWalt ones which is the one that started round off the bolt. The socket still grabs the bolt well but I'm afraid of rounding it further.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Do you have a 6 point socket? Highly recommended if your 12 point is starting to slip. Or general fasteners that are tight.
I flip the bike over, hold the pedal with one hand pushing down and my cheater bar on the other, pushing down. Crank arms with about 150-160 degree angle between them. Kind of what "feels" best.
Yeah I have a 6-pt DeWalt set but I feel like my 12-pt USA Craftsman socket actually grips better.. go figure. I'll try the 6-pt again. Do you mean your left hand on the non-drive pedal and then right hand on the ratchet?
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Old 03-04-21, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti
Yeah I have a 6-pt DeWalt set but I feel like my 12-pt USA Craftsman socket actually grips better.. go figure. I'll try the 6-pt again. Do you mean your left hand on the non-drive pedal and then right hand on the ratchet?
Hand on same side as the bolt. I stand on the opposite side of the bike and lean forward & down so I can also use my weight.
I use a 1/2" drive breaker bar, not a ratchet. Less to flop around then another tool with a piece of pipe slid over it for leverage.
Sq. Dr. & 6 point sockets gives 12 different positions if you need to pick one for best leverage.
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Old 03-04-21, 11:14 PM
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And watch out for those ring teeth! I strongly suggest you place the chain on that large ring, better to punch the chain then the teeth. One trick I sometimes use is to use a toe clip strap to wrap around one crank arm end and the chain stay. Double wrap it. Andy
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Old 03-04-21, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti
Yeah I have a 6-pt DeWalt set but I feel like my 12-pt USA Craftsman socket actually grips better.. go figure. I'll try the 6-pt again. Do you mean your left hand on the non-drive pedal and then right hand on the ratchet?
Not surprising, actual US made craftsman sockets were usually a decent brand and made to fairly decent standards, Newer stuff, not so much, the dewalt sockets are also, not to be insulting, a fairly cheap item and not really any better then harbor freight. I'd expect the craftsman to work better regardless of the 12 vs 6pt.
With a cheaper bike with thick tubes that I don't worry about I strap the crank arm to the frame so I don't have to hold it and also use a 1/2" breaker bar. Flip the bike upside down and set the bar so I can put my weight behind just pushing down.

What's the model number of the crank? It'll be on the back, looks like one of the ones that was recalled, if it is the recall is still valid and last time I did one 2 years ago it included a crank, BB, chain and front der. They're slow to replace right now but if it is the recall crank its cause they would snap.
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Old 03-04-21, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
Not surprising, actual US made craftsman sockets were usually a decent brand and made to fairly decent standards, Newer stuff, not so much, the dewalt sockets are also, not to be insulting, a fairly cheap item and not really any better then harbor freight. I'd expect the craftsman to work better regardless of the 12 vs 6pt.
With a cheaper bike with thick tubes that I don't worry about I strap the crank arm to the frame so I don't have to hold it and also use a 1/2" breaker bar. Flip the bike upside down and set the bar so I can put my weight behind just pushing down.

What's the model number of the crank? It'll be on the back, looks like one of the ones that was recalled, if it is the recall is still valid and last time I did one 2 years ago it included a crank, BB, chain and front der. They're slow to replace right now but if it is the recall crank its cause they would snap.
Yeah definitely on the socket set - the DeWalt set was a gift bought at Costco. It's nice cause it has a bunch of stuff, but it is definitely way, way lower quality than my USA made Craftsman and vintage Snap-On stuff that I usually buy for myself.

Would should I use to strap the crank to the frame? Would a ratchet strap from my truck work?

Oh wow I had no idea about that crank - I was considering replacing it anyway so that might be a good idea. What replacement did they send you? How would I go about getting the replacement done? Do I just call Shimano?

EDIT: The crank is FC-CT91

Last edited by speedyspaghetti; 03-04-21 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 03-04-21, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
And watch out for those ring teeth! I strongly suggest you place the chain on that large ring, better to punch the chain then the teeth. One trick I sometimes use is to use a toe clip strap to wrap around one crank arm end and the chain stay. Double wrap it. Andy
Yeah, you're right. I noticed it earlier and was telling myself "you should probably shift to the big ring" but I was being dumb. I'll make sure to do that tomorrow when I try to get it off again.
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Old 03-05-21, 07:52 AM
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Tools?

Impact air/electric tools are made for these situations.a quick burst of 500-1k ft.lbs. of torque should spin the bolt out ez.install a plastic pedal in the opposite side of the drivearm so it jams the crank from turning.
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Old 03-05-21, 07:58 AM
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You (or a helper) will have no problem holding the crank steady if you use the impact driver. The torque is delivered in very short impulses. I easily hold a wrench to a fastener while I “impact” the other end. The helper will also enable you to concentrate on not having the socket slip off the bolt and mess it up. Strangely, in another recent thread, I stated that there were few, if any, bicycle applications that required this much force. I clearly didn’t consider this instance, which has “impact driver” written all over it. That being said, however, give the penetrating oil a bit more than 15 mins to do its thing before you go medieval on the bolt - the less hammering necessary, the better
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Old 03-05-21, 09:15 AM
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I think that a longer “soak time” for the penetrant will go a long way RE: making removal of the crank bolt easier and less likely to damage tools and/or components! I’d lay the bike on its side and fill the little well surrounding the bolt head with Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, Kroil etc. and let it sit overnight. Don’t be impatient . Clean up something else on the bike. From the look of the crank, I’m quite sure there are other components that need attention .
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Old 03-05-21, 09:39 AM
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I have had a pneumatic impact wrench in my toolbox for many decades but I can't recall using it for the last 20 years. I think I would grab it, though, if I encountered what you are dealing with.

Good luck.

Edit: Also, I'd probably mount the NDS crank in a vise with soft jaws instead of lashing it to a stay. Probably wouldn't happen; however I'd be concerned about bending the stay.
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Old 03-05-21, 10:07 AM
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Were I to have my own retail service shop again (currently enjoy not bring home stress by working for someone else) I would want an impact driver. The auto service shop next door to Full Moon Vista has loosened a few BBs and other frozen threaded fittings for us with their coedless driver. We would hammer, long leverage, damage a tool or two then they would get the thing loose in about 30 seconds... Andy
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Old 03-05-21, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti
Yeah definitely on the socket set - the DeWalt set was a gift bought at Costco. It's nice cause it has a bunch of stuff, but it is definitely way, way lower quality than my USA made Craftsman and vintage Snap-On stuff that I usually buy for myself.

Would should I use to strap the crank to the frame? Would a ratchet strap from my truck work?

Oh wow I had no idea about that crank - I was considering replacing it anyway so that might be a good idea. What replacement did they send you? How would I go about getting the replacement done? Do I just call Shimano?

EDIT: The crank is FC-CT91
FC-CT90 would have been the recall, they look similar and hard to tell in the pic but the slightly wider crank arm was a lot safer.
When I tie down I use the long end of the ratchet strap, wrap it multiple times tightly and knot it. That does the trick usually.
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Old 03-05-21, 10:28 AM
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Heat it up, it's possible that someone used lock tight on it.
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Old 03-05-21, 10:48 AM
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You are turning the bolt in the correct direction and not assuming the threading is opposite like a pedal or BB cup?
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Old 03-05-21, 11:17 AM
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I would remove the pedals and use a cheater bar extension on both the wrench and the crank. That may provide enough tork, have the crank at 11 o'clock and the wrench at 1 o'clock positions and push together. Usually I just do this without extensions and just use hand grip with gloves on.
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Old 03-05-21, 12:44 PM
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So two things:
1. I got it off - the electric impact did the trick. It was definitely really stuck in there cause it took quite a bit of pulsing to get it off. I had to risk it with a chrome socket since my impact sockets would not fit. I wore eye protection and long sleeves to be safe. It was very, very satisfying when it came out - here is a 20 second video of the moment of success since I figured you guys deserve to share my joy with me -


2. I love this forum - I post this question last night and I have 21 replies in less than 12 hours. You guys are all so helpful and kind, and I truly appreciate that. Thank you all.
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Old 03-05-21, 07:29 PM
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You're welcome but most of up just want to show up the other guys here

And a thank you for your prompt follow up. Andy
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Old 03-05-21, 09:29 PM
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...for your consideration as you proceed, now that the bolt is off. I have grown weary over the many years I've been doing this stuff, with freeing up old stuck crank fixing bolts. The worst ones are the ones lie Zeus, where the 16 mm bolt head gives you precious little room even for a thin wall socket. So I very often replace them with a couple of these socket head crank bolts. They show up a lot over at the co-op as miscellaneous leftover parts, but you can also buy them new, online, if you are a big spender. Anyway, it's harder to screw up the bolt heads using an Allen head wrench socket on your ratchet. As a bonus, you no longer need those caps that sometimes get frozen in the crank sockets.

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