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Best Time For FTP Test

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Best Time For FTP Test

Old 03-07-18, 04:09 PM
  #1  
firebird854
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Best Time For FTP Test

I've done a bunch of FTP tests at this point and it has got me thinking, what is the best state to do it in? Should I take a few days off the bike, wait until the perfect time of day, and be amped up on enough caffeine to kill a small child?

Should my fatigue be a little high, in the middle of a week of moderate-hard workouts, and take the test non-caffeinated?

Should I be absolutely dead inside after an 800+ TSS week of tryhard crazyness before testing this?

What are your thoughts and experiences when it comes to FTP tests?
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Old 03-07-18, 04:29 PM
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What do you want from the test? Are you looking to pump up your ego or are you looking for a number upon which to base future workouts that are challenging but doable?
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Old 03-07-18, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by firebird854
I've done a bunch of FTP tests at this point and it has got me thinking, what is the best state to do it in?
Iowa.
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Old 03-07-18, 05:47 PM
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I concur Iowa would be ok.
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Old 03-07-18, 05:49 PM
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You should do an FTP test rested. This is a very straightforward training principle and the reason that a lot of times when people are actively racing, they're not riding many tests- taking a little break in training to rest up for a test is not necessarily worth it, you can get similar data from racing.


As far as the environmental conditions for the test, they should be as similar to the conditions of your goal event as possible- for example, it you're looking to win Hillclimb Nationals, you should test on your climbing bike up a long climb, if you're a TTist you should test on flat ground on your TT bike, if you're a Zwifter you should test on your indoor trainer. Believe it or not, you actually should have a different FTP set for various conditions in which you would ride/race your bike.


All of that said, there are practical considerations too. If you're riding a long (40-60 min) test outdoors, you might have no choice, traffic wise, but to do it up a hill. And no one wants to take the time to establish different FTPs for different bikes and riding scenarios.


So mostly people understand that there's some wiggle room on the FTP number you come up with anyway, they just ride the best test they can under the most analogous conditions to their goal events possible. And then move on and get the work done.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:28 PM
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Rested, as in coming off a recovery day or even a full day off the bike. But well warmed up. I've never done one on an indoor trainer because all my races are outside. I have a stretch of road that lets me do a continuous 20 minute effort with no stop signs.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:31 PM
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8:42 am
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Old 03-07-18, 08:55 PM
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If I wanted to max my FTP, I'd train hard for a month (but not overtrain), then I'd take 4 days off, take a nap in the early afternoon and then ride. Caffeine isn't a bad idea either.
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Old 03-07-18, 11:07 PM
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As others asked - what is it for?

If it is a goal - then rest, treat it like an event.
Best times ~ 4 hours after you wake up, 3 after you eat. Take the stuff you know works. YMMV.

If it is to know what could be done in a competition, do it about the same as you would competing.
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Old 03-08-18, 12:25 AM
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File Transfer Protocol? Not sure why this is on a cycling forum - can anyone explain?
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Old 03-08-18, 12:29 AM
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In the context of cycling training, FTP stands for functional threshold power. See https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/w...reshold-power/
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Old 03-08-18, 06:21 AM
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If you’re using the FTP for pacing in a triathlon the most important thing is to be consistent. You’ll likely be riding at some % of your measured FTP during your race which you’ll need to figure out over time. I think it’s much easier to track progress by measuring when not fully rested and tapered as that’s not going to happen very often during the year. Your measured FTP might be a little lower than what you could do under ideal conditions but you just take that into account when you decide what % of FTP you’re going to race at.
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Old 03-08-18, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
If you’re using the FTP for pacing in a triathlon the most important thing is to be consistent. You’ll likely be riding at some % of your measured FTP during your race which you’ll need to figure out over time. I think it’s much easier to track progress by measuring when not fully rested and tapered as that’s not going to happen very often during the year. Your measured FTP might be a little lower than what you could do under ideal conditions but you just take that into account when you decide what % of FTP you’re going to race at.
OP has not said, but if it is for a triathlon - I think what you described is useful. If the ride is finished with a bit extra in the tank because you were using the FTP number (or lower) on the PM, then you can burn it up running.

In any event when using FTP is the last thing you do - I don't see FTP being that useful. The rider varies a lot day to day - when measuring FTP (which should be averaged over many days) and riding to a number either leaves too much in the tank (you went slower than you could), or you are not up to doing your number that day and over-cook. Many know their FTP, then just ride to a perceived effort for that event and it goes into that bucket they can average. I noticed that riders that established an accurate FTP number (not calculated - by riding an hour), they also trained their body what it feels like and the actual ride is done to how they feel. A triathlon being a great exception to this because the last leg is on foot where they are likely not using FTP - rather perceived effort.
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Old 03-08-18, 09:13 AM
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Remember the first letter in that acronym - Functional. Don't overthink it.

Really what's best is that you perform the test as consistently as possible, in regards to point in training cycle (and thus fatigue), time of day, location, nutrition, warmup, etc. Personally I like to perform the testing on my second ride (Tuesday) after a recovery week, with a specific "warmup" ride the day before containing a few moderate metered efforts. If I go in rested after a day off I tend to feel stale, but that's just me.

Just fine what works for you and then stick to it.
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Old 03-08-18, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Doge
In any event when using FTP is the last thing you do - I don't see FTP being that useful.
I agree. I think the primary benefit of measuring something regularly is to determine the efficacy of your training program. Once you've been training for a while, having an accurate FTP is not necessary for training. If an interval set is too easy at the target power, you just raise it. One doesn't need to wait for a formal FTP test before adjusting interval targets.

Experienced time trialers know what it feels like to ride on the 'edge' so they don't need it either. The only time trial type events I do are hill climbs and the pacing profile is less important on a hill so I usually start a little optimistically, i.e. where I'd like my FTP to be
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Old 03-08-18, 09:56 AM
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The trainer road guys recommend FTP testing after a week of recovery ie between their training blocks every 6 weeks. They recommend doing a day of light training load with short higher intensity work thrown in so your body remembers how to work at that level. 2-3x5mins @ftp should do it the day prior to the test
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Old 03-08-18, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
I agree. I think the primary benefit of measuring something regularly is to determine the efficacy of your training program. Once you've been training for a while, having an accurate FTP is not necessary for training. If an interval set is too easy at the target power, you just raise it. One doesn't need to wait for a formal FTP test before adjusting interval targets.

Experienced time trialers know what it feels like to ride on the 'edge' so they don't need it either. The only time trial type events I do are hill climbs and the pacing profile is less important on a hill so I usually start a little optimistically, i.e. where I'd like my FTP to be
Last Sat wife and I drove with kid's TT bike from SoCal to Fort Collins, CO to see kid TT. He had to get up at 4:00AM as the school did not allow an overnight Friday and start time was 9:05:30. He ate poorly, slept poorly, was not rested due to activities before and didn't see his bike until we got there with it. He/we knew it was going to be a shake out the legs, and see how everyone else is doing thing. Kinda a waste, but our purpose was a visit and the school took the team anyway. An FTP number would be useless to use for that.

The next day was completely different. Good sleep, good food, his regular bike and soloed last 20 min. He road way above his recorded FTP. If he had seen his FTP and what he was doing would he have slowed down, or ignored it? In both cases that eliminates the benefit of seeing one's FTP during the event.

I suspect pros are doing just that - slowing down sometimes based on numbers. Maybe it is the lack of the good PEDs, but there is a lot of pacing going on, that I think if they were not worried about tomorrow, we'd all see a lot more animation. And maybe in stage races they should restrain themselves as they have to race the next day, races are sooo long, and they can be using FTP a bit like Tri racers - to hold back. Just makes it more boring to watch.

But for those single day events when you can rest later, a number is a guess at what you should/or have historically held. In the event, you just do it, and you find that the number you had may have been way off. If you don't know what you can do, I think your FTP is likely not so accurate either.
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Old 03-08-18, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Iowa.
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Old 03-08-18, 11:50 AM
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For what it's worth. Take the test when you're fresh and in good form. The test is to learn what you're capable of. Know that when you have some accumulated fatigue in your legs, this will affect you, and you won't be in top shape.
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Old 03-09-18, 10:38 AM
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Wouldn't taking caffeine or any supplement skew your results?
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Old 03-09-18, 11:15 AM
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If you have caffeine before a race or hard training session, you should have caffeine before your test.
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Old 03-09-18, 04:44 PM
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How do I edit the name of this thread? I really want to change it to "best state" instead of time, I wasn't particularly awake when I initially created it.
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Old 03-09-18, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
For what it's worth. Take the test when you're fresh and in good form. The test is to learn what you're capable of. Know that when you have some accumulated fatigue in your legs, this will affect you, and you won't be in top shape.
The problem with that approach is you’ll seldom be fresh and in top form while training.
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Old 03-09-18, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gregf83
The problem with that approach is you’ll seldom be fresh and in top form while training.
Yep, which is why I posted this, the workouts I hate the most are the ones after an amazing FTP test. I'll be super impressed, then incredibly devastated at the first over-under, constantly re-calibrating my trainer thinking it was a mechanical issue and not, well... me.
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Old 03-09-18, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by firebird854
How do I edit the name of this thread? I really want to change it to "best state" instead of time.
Thread titles are like grown children -- once they're out in the world, they're on their own.

I wasn't particularly awake when I initially created it.
Like I said, just like children.
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