Commit the crime, pay the fine?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Great White North
Posts: 1,226
Bikes: 2013 Cannondale Caad 8, 2010 Opus Fidelio, 1985 Peugeot UO14, 1999 Peugeot Dune, Sakai Select, L'Avantage, 1971 Gitane Apache Standard, 1999 Specialized Hard Rock
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times
in
302 Posts
Commit the crime, pay the fine?
A local story around here about police officers using video on their shifts catching a cyclist going through a stop sign in a small community, probably early in the morning. Needless to say it got quite a bit of a attention from those on social media who are pro bike and those against . I get the concern but wonder if it has to be taken in consideration based on the circumstance? empty 4 way stop sign, no traffic (road or pedestrian) or maybe a warning issued?
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/video/sho...eing-ticketed/
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/video/sho...eing-ticketed/
#2
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3091 Post(s)
Liked 6,601 Times
in
3,785 Posts
No 50+ content. Thread moved to A&S.
__________________
#3
Senior Member
I typically slow down, often stop, but I'm not perfect. Sometimes I cheat, especially if clear line of sight. If I got caught it would be no flack, pay the fine. I knew the rules when I hopped on the bike. If one doesn't like it, lobby the ordinance to be changed.
Likes For gear64:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,244
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18420 Post(s)
Liked 15,563 Times
in
7,333 Posts
Likes For indyfabz:
#5
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,992
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6196 Post(s)
Liked 4,810 Times
in
3,318 Posts
Seems like a no brainer. I don't break any laws driving or cycling when there are police around.
I certainly don't know what the laws are where the incident occurred.
I certainly don't know what the laws are where the incident occurred.
#6
Senior Member
If the police is enforcing the letter of the law, then I would abide by it. However, I would challenge their enforcement if they appear to be lenient on motorists who do the same thing by rolling through stop signs without a full-stop.
Likes For Daniel4:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,799
Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,025 Times
in
723 Posts
Leave a nasty note about the kind of people who give the ticket on the "for" line; been known to do that in the past. In this case I would, legal or not this was a waste of time, energy and the police need to find something better to do.
Likes For Russ Roth:
#8
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
When the cyclist goes to court, he should use that video to make a citizens arrest against the cop. He DID NOT come to a full stop at the stop sign.
Likes For rydabent:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,949
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3952 Post(s)
Liked 7,299 Times
in
2,947 Posts
Likes For tomato coupe:
Likes For Leisesturm:
#12
Half way there
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,957
Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 880 Times
in
527 Posts
The intent of the law is to prevent collisions. If there is no possibility of a collision due to no other vehicles being present, then the law is irrelevant and should not be enforced.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 774
Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 358 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times
in
87 Posts
So, who was he a danger to,?
I think its silly.. I wonder if he would have done a rolling stop, would they still have ticketed him?
I think its silly.. I wonder if he would have done a rolling stop, would they still have ticketed him?
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,887
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6971 Post(s)
Liked 10,968 Times
in
4,692 Posts
But your post raises an interesting issue: some traffic laws are designed to reduce motor vehicle collisions, but put cyclists in more danger. For example, forcing a cyclist to stop at a sign or light -- which makes the cyclist a sitting duck without a 4,000 metallic cocoon for protection -- even though the cyclist could safely pass through without stopping. And even though a cyclist's mistake would physically harm no one but the cyclist.
Take marijuana laws as an analog: for many decades, many tens of millions (maybe more?) of people smoked pot, even though it was illegal. They smoked it because it harmed no one -- generally, not even the smoker, unless it was combined with driving a car or something similar. Now that more and more states are making pot legal, and even expunging minor criminal convictions, the idea that you had to obey that law simply because it was a law seems quaintly naive.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,904
Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2604 Post(s)
Liked 1,933 Times
in
1,213 Posts
Price you pay for living in a quiet place with no crime and bored cops.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,204
Bikes: ...a few.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2012 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times
in
235 Posts
The law is the law, I suppose. The guy was unlucky that the cop decided to enforce it where 99.9% of the time it is not. I'm guilty of running stop signs multiple times during my daily commute, and on more than a few occasions there'd been cops sitting by watching for motorists that do the same thing. Once the cop did mutter something to me about stopping, to which I gave him puzzled look and just rode on. Lucky, I guess.
Likes For mcours2006:
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,440
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 625 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 397 Times
in
275 Posts
The bicyclist didn't even bother to look. Even though there appeared to be no traffic. The bicyclists didn't see the Police. I bet he looks from now on. You should consider it to be hard times and obey the law, or the tax collector may come calling on you.
#18
For The Fun of It
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,852
Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2135 Post(s)
Liked 1,647 Times
in
829 Posts
I am guessing he assumed the cross traffic would stop since it's a 4 way stop. That's a dangerous practice.
#19
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Perhaps however the cyclist could hear that there were no sounds of engines or approaching rolling tires... difficult to do in a busy city, but easy enough in a rural area... and not likely to be done by a motorist who has to deal with motor noise, tire noise, rolled up windows and entertainment systems.
Of course try to explain that to a cop...
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,440
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 625 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 397 Times
in
275 Posts
I was riding with a group of twenty plus riders my last year in the army. It was in Germany and we had the light. An idiot ran the light. I was the only one that was hit. I look always even if I am in a group. You can't always count on your ears alone. Using your eyes is better.
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Great White North
Posts: 1,226
Bikes: 2013 Cannondale Caad 8, 2010 Opus Fidelio, 1985 Peugeot UO14, 1999 Peugeot Dune, Sakai Select, L'Avantage, 1971 Gitane Apache Standard, 1999 Specialized Hard Rock
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 548 Post(s)
Liked 473 Times
in
302 Posts
Although I may not follow the law to the definition, I do approach all stop signs by slowing down, looking all ways for pedestrians and cars and then make a judgement call. If there is neither car nor pedestrian I carry on, so a rolling stop. I wouldn't do this at an intersection with lights and I never blow through. I honestly dislike seeing riders or groups blatantly run a set of lights or stop sign and always think they are giving each of us cyclists a bad name.
I would think a warning from the cop would have been significant but the story indicates he was fined $115.
I would think a warning from the cop would have been significant but the story indicates he was fined $115.
#22
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
Once again considering the time and no traffic a warning should have been in order. The fine $110 is obscene. It just fills the city B'crats coffers.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times
in
204 Posts
But, unless the cop actually hits someone, complaining isn't going to do anything, and you certainly can't put someone under citizens arrest for a traffic violation.
#25
Senior Member
I do not see the issue here. The bicyclist did not stop at the sign, did not even slow down going by the sign, and he did not even bother to look to see if traffic was clear. If it were a car going through the intersection without stopping and hitting a bike would we still have the same opinion that it is OK to go through a stop sign without stopping?
Likes For blue192: