Wildwood 

So are discs on road bikes.

WhyFi

I think that people understood but didn't see much merit in that conversation and so decided to take it in a more practical direction.

TimothyH

Keep in mind that there are two types of e-bikes.

Throttle operated don't need to be pedaled.

e-assist need to be pedaled and the motor only assists. Assist is supposed to cut out above 20 MPH.

Assuming that either are unmodified, both types should not be lumped together. A rider with disability or an older rider getting an assist is not the same as someone twisting a throttle and going from 0 to 20 in two seconds.


-Tim-

noodle soup

There are 2 types of e-assist bikes. Some top out at 20mph, and some at 28mph.

Who is selling throttle operated e-bikes? I'm not saying they don't exist, but I haven't seen them.

noodle soup

MoAlpha

The only place you see these is in museums now. Sad!

seypat

The main problem/negative I see is when the E bikes start hitting the A rides and egos begin taking hits. The arms race will really heat up. When the best riders in the group see their advantages disappear, watch out. When they are no longer first to the top of the hill or can't win the road sign sprints any more, what do you think will happen? They will go to e-assist as well. People will find a way around the assist cutouts, etc. They'll start souping up those motors as well. The group cruising speed of 28 is going to jump to 35. Then it will keep on jumping. You will have those hammerfest coal train pace lines flying down the road at 40+mph. That will be creating some dangerous situations. Absolutely no room for error/mistakes. Bear in mind that any performance increase will help the better riders more.

WhyFi

Any group ride that welcomes ebike sprints to the town sign ebikes is a group ride that I'll happily skip.

Wildwood 

A significant reason for the increase in rate of e-bike sales at the leading edge.
No longer for those who just want to 'stay with the group' in the hills.
…..Stylin with your e-SWorks, eTimeMachine, e-TRC, e-Emonda...

burnthesheep

No it won't. No self respecting hammer group would allow an e-bike. That's not a hammer ride, that's go karting. The group would simply disband or tell the person/people not to come back.

There might be a separate "motorized bike gang" running round town like a bunch of sportbike squids. But that group wouldn't be welcome on the hammer ride.

Also, any self respecting Sunday coffee ride WOULD allow one.

Let's be honest though, the off-road group has a LOT more to lose in this battle than roadies. You can't tear up the road on an e-bike (literally break it). You can destroy a trail with an overweight rider plus an overweight bike with a whole 1/2 horsepower at disposal at all times treating it like a motorbike.

I think what bugs me most about the interaction is that people riding them try to insert themselves into pedal bike fitness based competition and pretend it's the same thing. It's not. All the videos of the e-mtb races and e-races are motorbike races. They aren't bicycle races. Calling it such is pretty disingenuous. It's like trying to say you bowled a 200 with the gutter guards up.

It's closer to motocross or a really slow class of motorcycle racing than it is to bicycle racing.

I don't think people realize how MUCH power these things give people. 250w additional? How many people riding an e-bike could ever even do 250w for 5 minutes?

If I added 250w to an hour ride of mine at my hour power, I'd essentially be a freaking moped or mini-motorcycle flying around. 520w combined is 2/3 of a horsepower! The max for a moped to be a moped is 3hp.

At my 2min power it would be close to a whole horsepower. That's just silly.

If you're a decent size and have the gears, you can climb grades at about 150w. I think the limit needs to be a LOT lower on how much power these things are allowed to contribute.

Guess what, if it doesn't give enough assist uphill.......you might be big enough a moped wouldn't help super much either!

God bless the people the bikes can help with their lives.......but the lazy childish idiots out there will ruin it.

This is our future:

Dan333SP

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm on the board of a club which just outlawed ebikes on our signature endurance ride. Unanimous. That's a good start.

Another group which I lead had an ebike come out maybe 3 times. I gather that the experience was unsatisfactory because he went away and hasn't been seen again. Good.

Elvo

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike/

Carbonfiberboy 

OTOH, one of our fastest riders has a 25 mile commute, each way. He bought an ebike, and now it's an hour commute and he doesn't arrive sweaty. That's on the road, not a MUP. I'm fine with that. Dice with the MVs like any motorbike.

Carbonfiberboy 

Not gonna happen. It's not about winning, it's about busting the nuts of your competitors. Ebikes take that fun away.

Seattle Forrest

Hikers like them (but not the price or power limits) for closed and decommissioned roads. The 3 Fingers trail is 15 miles round trip, but the road washed out 8 miles from the trailhead, and nobody wants to add a 16 mile road walk to an already long trip.

HTupolev

Egos won't take hits in the A rides, certainly not if they know that the e-bikes are e-bikes. Nobody is impressed by people going fast uphill with a motor.

Seattle Forrest

A lot of the e bikes I see are fat bikes. Or eMTBs. We're talking about tires with 100w more rolling resistance than anything you'd ever consider. Plus bikes with terrible aerodynamics and riders in a sit up and beg posture. 500w on a slow bike is like 200w on a road bike.

StephenH

I think it's largely a fad that'll come and go.
How were motorcycles invented? By motorizing bicycles. It's been done.
I've got nothing against motorcycles, but can't see much point in trying to go halfway.
If you're too slow for the group, that's okay, just go find a slower group.
Bicycles have advantages (exercise, fitness) and disadvantages (exposed to elements and traffic). Electric bikes get you the disadvantages without the advantages. About as pointless as a Segway.

Now, all that said-
I do randonneuring. I ride 125 miles and average maybe 15 mph.
When I get too old for that, I'm going to buy a tractor. Then I'll do the same routes at the same speed on my tractor. We'll call that "tractorneuring".

himespau 

Heck, you don't need to soup up the motor or use it on the sprint to have an advantage. Someone who usually competes for line sprints and is now fresher because the used the assist to help them up a hill (where the current governor restricted 28 is still faster than most riders - assuming a solid hill here, not a little roller), is going to see a nice advantage. Don't think most rides will allow it due to the whole getting faster before you've got the skills thing.

PepeM

Cool story. I will watch the movie when it comes out.

caloso

The A rides I go on are pretty much all racers, with a definite skew to 1s and 2s. I don't see it happening.

Wildwood 

For you maybe.
Current society = it's about winning, not about busting any nuts, especially your own.

caloso

We're not talking about society, we're talking about the Tuesday Night World Championships.

MattTheHat 

I can vouch for this. I'm over 50 and a Clyde. I'm doing really good if my average ride speed over my morning 30 mile ride is 15 MPH. I've been passed by a couple of groups and I've sat at stop lights with a few of the riders from these groups. I'm not going to say they're unfriendly...I'll just say that they make sure I understand that we're of different species.

I would imagine the interaction would be even colder for an e-bike rider that dares enter their ranks.


-Matt