Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Broken droput repair

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Broken droput repair

Old 11-07-19, 12:02 AM
  #1  
CycleryNorth81
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 877

Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 118 Posts
Broken droput repair

Is this how you repair a broken dropout on a steel frame? Is the repair adequate?

CycleryNorth81 is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 12:04 AM
  #2  
CycleryNorth81
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 877

Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 118 Posts
The other part of the video.

CycleryNorth81 is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 02:10 AM
  #3  
Drillium Dude 
Banned.
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,394
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,823 Times in 1,709 Posts
I dunno if it's adequate, but I surely recognized the various ways he used the Dremel

I watched the build video, too. I wonder how well the bike braked afterwards? After watching the way he linked up the rear brake I assume there will be a decent amount of travel at the brake lever. Pads weren't lined up with the rims, either. And that bike deserved a stainless Campy coil housing - with ferrules on both ends - at the RD. Damn, I'm picky

Still and all, a nice video record of a vintage bike build.

DD
Drillium Dude is offline  
Likes For Drillium Dude:
Old 11-07-19, 02:28 AM
  #4  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,035

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro

Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,236 Times in 653 Posts
Repairing a cracked dropout

Exactement...

In the video they used a standard electro-arc welding setup. Using TIG welding gives much better control over the weld quality and amount of material deposited.

A number of years ago, I started cleaning up a 1982 Bertin Reynolds 531SL frame that I bought on eBay in preparation for assembly. I noticed what looked like a crack in the right dropout.



It has Shimano UF vertical dropouts which have a reputation for cracking in that area. I scraped off some paint and sure enough it had a small crack.


I removed the paint to prep it for welding and took it to a frame builder friend to have him TIG weld it.



He used a carbide burr in an air grinder like in the video to notch the area to be filled in. As he did so, the crack broke through so he had to notch the inner side too.

He did a clean job and shot it with some primer. Took him about 10-15 minutes. I left the weld bead intact so that a future owner could see that it had been repaired.



I used some touch-up paint and the repair is almost unnoticeable. It's also probably stronger than new too.



If it were a more severe break I would have had the dropout replaced, especially if it were a more valuable bike.

verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 03:30 AM
  #5  
Gary Fountain
Senior Member
 
Gary Fountain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Posts: 2,925

Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked 196 Times in 122 Posts
Hi CycleryNorth81, strangely enough I've had a few Pinarello Asolo's over the years and 2 of them had similar cracks in the RH rear dropout as the Colnago in the clip. I cleaned the cracked area up and brazed the dropouts back together without the need to open up the crack even further. I've still got one of the frames and, 15 years on, it's given no further problems.
Gary Fountain is offline  
Likes For Gary Fountain:
Old 11-07-19, 08:49 AM
  #6  
francophile 
PM me your cotters
 
francophile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: ATL
Posts: 3,916
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1137 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 420 Posts
Ugh. The way he inserted the stem and seat post during the buildup. "Hold up, lemme see how many zig-zags I can put on this thang!"
francophile is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 09:22 AM
  #7  
TenGrainBread 
Senior Member
 
TenGrainBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,742
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 649 Times in 336 Posts
That is certainly not a very good way to repair that dropout.

1. I would remove a little more paint from the area than they did. Any possible contaminants near the weld area could cause failures in the weld.
2. Stick welding is not an appropriate way to repair that dropout. It will hold ok if you do a good job, but a professional welder would choose TIG welding for thin metal repairs. The other problem with stick welding is that there are a lot of sparks and slag produced during welding. The guy in the video did nothing to prevent these hot bits of metal from damaging the paint on the rest of the frame.
3. Welding outside is a risky process. People around without adequate eye shielding can get arc flashed and there is a greater risk of electrocution when arc welding. The grounding method through a bolt in the dropout was clever but besides that this is a hack job. The fact that he's welding on top of a stack of cardboard is also laughable.
4. There was no attempt to fixture the dropouts such that welding doesn't affect alignment. At the very least use a dummy axle, if not a full-fledged fixture, to keep the dropouts parallel!
TenGrainBread is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 09:47 AM
  #8  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,958
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1421 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
I agree that TIG weld is the best choice with v-ground channel prep and that is exactly what Bernie Mikkelsen used to fix a cracked Campy "short DO" for me years back. It hasn't failed yet! But Bernie is one guy who knows what he's doing and minds the little details that make a difference to final results.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-07-19, 02:55 PM
  #9  
Manny66 
Senior Member
 
Manny66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Whittier
Posts: 864

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, Litespeed Classic , Automoto , Pinarello Gavia TSX,Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra,Eddy Merckx EMX-5 , 1982 Moser SL, Concorde TSX, Vitus 979 KAS. Diamant SLX,60's Meteor

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 926 Times in 319 Posts
Ive fixed a few dropouts, but I used a Mig Welder and the process was similar to this video.

2 Pinarellos and 1 Bottechia and so far they have held up over the years..Its not heart surgery.
Manny66 is offline  
Likes For Manny66:
Old 11-07-19, 03:53 PM
  #10  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Originally Posted by TenGrainBread
That is certainly not a very good way to repair that dropout.

1. I would remove a little more paint from the area than they did. Any possible contaminants near the weld area could cause failures in the weld.
2. Stick welding is not an appropriate way to repair that dropout. It will hold ok if you do a good job, but a professional welder would choose TIG welding for thin metal repairs. The other problem with stick welding is that there are a lot of sparks and slag produced during welding. The guy in the video did nothing to prevent these hot bits of metal from damaging the paint on the rest of the frame.
3. Welding outside is a risky process. People around without adequate eye shielding can get arc flashed and there is a greater risk of electrocution when arc welding. The grounding method through a bolt in the dropout was clever but besides that this is a hack job. The fact that he's welding on top of a stack of cardboard is also laughable.
4. There was no attempt to fixture the dropouts such that welding doesn't affect alignment. At the very least use a dummy axle, if not a full-fledged fixture, to keep the dropouts parallel!
That is a smaller rod than I've seen used around here. So, not at all "farm welding".

I agree, it could have used a little more cleaning. But, I'm not hearing any splattering or popping. Everything looks like a good clean weld.

One option that people talk about is wrapping wet rag around heat sensitive areas like the chainstay.

The guy isn't even wearing leathers.

Yeah, a slight fire risk to the pallets and cardboard, but it likely would have been localized and easily extinguished.

How did humans ever survive with the potentially damaging sun in the sky? We should all be blind by age 5!!!

That location looks relatively isolated. The arc flash isn't significantly dangerous as long as people don't look at it for a sustained time.

Wind can be an issue outside, but perhaps less of a problem using flux. Nonetheless, outside is better to avoid welding fumes.

Contrast to this guy.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-bikeshop.html


He does some grinding and welding about halfway through the video, apparently without any eye protection. And, wow, those welds!!!



CliffordK is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 01:38 AM
  #11  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,035

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro

Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,236 Times in 653 Posts
TIG Welding Dropouts

Originally Posted by unworthy1
I agree that TIG weld is the best choice with v-ground channel prep and that is exactly what Bernie Mikkelsen used to fix a cracked Campy "short DO" for me years back. It hasn't failed yet! But Bernie is one guy who knows what he's doing and minds the little details that make a difference to final results.
Ed Litton did mine. He had the job finished while we were still discussing the problem.

The other advantage of TIG welding is that you can control the heat much better than with electro-arc stick welding, especially in this kind of application.

After he finished welding there was hardly any more paint damage than the area that I had prepped.

Before welding:



verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 02:41 PM
  #12  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,845

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 924 Times in 610 Posts
I think his welds look like that because he closes his eyes.

BTW, nice bungee bike stand.
Originally Posted by CliffordK

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-bikeshop.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpyqvIzOUfA

He does some grinding and welding about halfway through the video, apparently without any eye protection. And, wow, those welds!!!



__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 03:34 PM
  #13  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26250 Post(s)
Liked 10,231 Times in 7,100 Posts
Originally Posted by TenGrainBread

. ..The fact that he's welding on top of a stack of cardboard is also laughable.

...I caught a lawnmower on fire once welding a sleeve patch to the broken handle. Forgot to empty out the gas. True story/
3alarmer is offline  
Old 11-08-19, 03:52 PM
  #14  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Ahhh... I did upload it here.

My welding jig for the cargo bike.





Cardboard behind to protect the car from splatter.

And, didn't even manage to burn down my workshop.

Note: I now have a fiberglass mat from Harbor Freight that I'll use in the future for similar protection... Probably...
CliffordK is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.