Splendidtutiona

I thought I would ask the almighty knowledge of the C&V forum on this one.
I bought a Peugeot P8 a few years ago to flip and never got around to it. Coronavirus and the Clunker 100 challenge gave me reason to go through it.
It all came apart WAY easier than I had anticipated. Then I got to re-assembling the fork/frame/headset and ran into trouble.

Before I took it apart, the headset was a mess. The fork would barely turn, and when it did, it was VERY sticky and jerky. Good reason for this: the upper bearings were the caged type and were rusted completely. Bearings and retainer and everything. Someone had replaced the bearings at some point and it looked like they just forgot grease. No biggie, trash them and clean up the headset. perfect. I had "accidentally" bought a ton of 5/32" bearings in cages to rebuild these. (I thought I was buying 2, I was buying 2 bags of 16, oops)

On the lower race, they work beautifully. sits right on the crown race, fits right in the lower frame race, perfect.

I set them in the upper frame race, and they don't fit. The diameter of the cage is too large to set in the cup. It *seems* like the bearings aren't sitting far enough down in the cup to be effective. Does this sound reasonable or possible? I am just going to pop the bearings out of the cages and use that (probably will have to use 2 cages to get enough loose bearings).

I guess the question is, am I missing anything? The bearings in the cage sits about halfway out of the upper cup race, so I am pretty sure the diameter is too large. It just seems odd that the cages fit in the lower race, but not the upper.

Also, to inform the internet, the 1982 P8's are British/ISO threaded for the steerer and Bottom Bracket. All the stuff that came off my 1973 Raleigh threads onto this Peugeot. It's this weird upper race thing that is just weird to me.

Just looking for discussion if anyone has encountered this, I think I have the solution (using loose bearings)

EDIT: I guess I should add the question: Does anyone see any problems with the remove-the-bearings-from-the-cages-and-just-use-them-that-way plan? Wither from the bearings themselves or the headset standpoint?

noobinsf 

Generally, using loose bearings is better because it distributes the load to more bearings. The main benefit with cages was ease of assembly in production, as I understand it. I'm not sure what the right size is for your headset, but someone will have some insight about that shortly, no doubt.

dweenk

I agree with you. Just put loose bearings in and see how it goes together.

Splendidtutiona

Thanks guys. I understand "loose is better" but this is a beater, at best, and seems to have survived just fine with questionable bearing and maintenance choices thus far. So, a pile (well, a neatly arranged ring) of loose 5/32" bearings it is for the top race!

SurferRosa

I would test the bearing size of both lower and upper cups before you permanently rebuild it with loose bearings by using dry (no grease) bearing retainers and see how that performs when assembled. If it binds or the adjustable cup cannot be secured, you know you have the wrong size or a headset in need of repair.

dddd

Most headsets will use the same size of retainer top and bottom, as both are configured with cup being pressed into each end of the head tube.

Some headsets have the upper headset inside out from this, with the cone being pressed into the head tube, and so may end up needing a different-diameter bearing cage.

Many 1980's Peugeots came with a house-brand headset having a dull-grey plating of some sort and with vertical knurling on the upper threaded cup. These were of the inside-out variety (and were particularly heavy to boot). Well made parts that normally last a very long time, and pictured on this bike:

Splendidtutiona

I got this back together a while ago. I think the upside down thing was giving me pause, and I think was the problem with the bearing retainer. Or I just insisted in putting it in the wrong way. Either way, all loose bearings, and no problems!