rmfnla

But rubbing with a rag with solvent as fietsbob says will remove the sticky stuff from the outside and leave it on the inside where you want it most.

This is my standard method for new chains...

ThermionicScott 

Clean and pretty chains are way overrated.

3alarmer 

Sy Reene

sorry.. I know this is a slightly old thread, but I opened up a new (first time KMC buyer) KMC 11SL chain.. it was very sticky. I'd say it felt like it was dipped in orange juice and then allowed to dry. I'm in the process of stripping it now with some OMS baths. I don't understand though the logic of wanting sticky stuff 'on the inside' -- isn't frictionless the utopian ideal?

Moe Zhoost

Now that you mention it, the KMC chains I've handled recently seemed a bit sticky, but I didn't get a sense that the coating was something other than grease. No matter, I just mount them, wipe all the excess off, and ride. After a few hundred miles, I relube -or- if I'm feeling a bit energetic, I may clean the chain in my ultrasonic cleaner and then relube. I'm getting at least 3,000 miles from a chain and I can't see any difference in shifting or noise with the factory lube vs. other lubes - so no plans to do anything different.

Thanks for starting this thread. I've heard that chain lube practices are rarely discussed here.

Sy Reene

Just trying to do my part.

Kimmo 

My feeling is that, like wheel bearings, any drag you can feel by hand is magnified compared to how it affects the operation of the part in situ; the leverage makes it a tiny fraction of the force acting on it.

So if you grant that, stickiness of the lube is a good thing once you've cleaned off all the external lube; it stays put and keeps water out. IMO washing such lube out of a chain is a big mistake unless absolute efficiency in the very short term is your goal.

Speaking of keeping water out, keep WD40, Simple Green and the like away from your bike - they're emulsifiers by design, destroying the ability of any lube to repel water.

cyccommute 

Almost but not quite. Simple Green is kind of an emulsifier but it’s a detergent which is a special kind of emulsifier. It’s more water soluble than other kinds of emulsifiers. The oil mixes with water and washes away. That’s how all detergents work. Simple Green is meant to remove the oil.

WD-40, no matter what it says, isn’t a “water displacement”. It is completely water insoluble. It doesn’t emulsify nor does it mix with water at all. It rather thin compared to most lubricants. It drains off quickly which starves the chain of lubricant. But normal oil based chain lubricant flows off the chain as well. The point of the original wax-based factory lubricant is that it doesn’t flow off. It sticks better.

cyccommute 

Almost but not quite. Simple Green is kind of an emulsifier but it’s a detergent which is a special kind of emulsifier. It’s more water soluble than other kinds of emulsifiers. The oil mixes with water and washes away. That’s how all detergents work. Simple Green is meant to remove the oil.

WD-40, no matter what it says, isn’t a “water displacement”. It is completely water insoluble. It doesn’t emulsify nor does it mix with water at all. It rather thin compared to most lubricants. It drains off quickly which starves the chain of lubricant. But normal oil based chain lubricant flows off the chain as well. The point of the original wax-based factory lubricant is that it doesn’t flow off. It sticks better and it keeps the water out.

easyupbug 

My exact experience, better said than I could.

rmfnla

It does sound counter-intuitive, but the manufacturers all swear that sticky stuff is the best possible lube and strongly recommend you not remove it.

Sy Reene

Yeah, except at the same time, don't all of the wax based drip lube makers say that their products don't work very well unless that stuff is stripped off? I know they say this for hot wax (which I'm not doing), but wouldn't it be the same guidance for drip/bottle wax lubes? It might be nice if some manufacturer sold a line of chains that had nothing on them to start. I probably wouldn't do this again -- which was to follow the Molten SpeedWax directions for cleaning a new chain.. After the 3 OMS and 2 Denatured alcohol baths, I now have about 24 ozs of hazardous sludge in an old juice bottle

ClydeClydeson

My experience with wax-based liquid waxes like WL are that they don't get dirty, but they also rinse off if your ride in wet conditions. Lubed chain to squeaky unlubricated chain can happen in a fairly short wet ride. OP saying he rides in salty conditions and uses wax makes no sense to me.

rmfnla

I think by the time you need to touch up the chain the original lube has broken down enough to no longer be a problem.

The lube on a new chain also keeps it from rusting while being shipped or sitting on a shelf.

trailangel

Something seems to have chainged with KMC chains. I'm seeing different packaging... maybe now made in China instead of Taiwan?....almost looks like knock-off product.

70sSanO

I clean off the "stuff" that KMC puts on their chain and use a dry lube on my mountain bikes. I have no doubt that the stuff is best for the chain when it is sitting on the shelf, and maybe even riding. I just don't want trail dust on a sticky chain and rather clean it off before I ride.

I have found that none of the lubes are very good. The more protection the harder to clean the drivetrain. The less protection the more it has to be re-applied. In the long run, everyone spends the same amount of time lubing. People just pick their poison.

John

branko_76 

I just bought a new SRAM chain that had a sticky lube on it. I assumed it was there to prevent corrosion so i soaked the chain in kerosene to remove all of the lubricant and then installed it dry and applied chain lube. I think the key to chain longevity is to keep it clean.

Gresp15C

I live in a road salt area. My experience has been that nothing will keep the outside of the chain from picking up some rust, possibly short of meticulous daily cleaning. A chain guard helps a lot. A full chain case would be ideal, if I had one. The benefit of those components is, in addition to protecting the chain, you can use heavier oil without it getting on your pants. Last winter I applied sticky wet lube in the fall, and the chain still runs smoothly right now, despite having been parked outdoors (under cover) and neglected since I started working from home in early March. Since the bike has an IGH, the chain doesn't need to play well with derailleurs, so the surface rust is just a cosmetic issue.

KMC makes a galvanized chain. I'll try one when this chain wears out. It wouldn't be too outrageous to have summer and winter chains if you intend to ride just one bike year-round. I finally settled on having a dedicated winter bike to keep the salt off of my other bikes.

I've heard from a couple chemists that car mufflers rust from the inside out due to the small amount of sulfuric acid in exhaust.

canklecat

KMC revamped their entire product lineup, although in most cases it appears they mostly renamed existing products.

I have a bunch of old stock KMC chains and one recent KMC chain. The packaging is different but the chain appears to be the same.

The new KMC packaging is much better. It's plastic with options to hang on hooks, like SRAM chains. And the Missing Link quick link is stashed in its own little compartment where it's easy to see. The old cheap cardboard packages tore up easily and weren't hangable, which limited options for retailers.

But both SRAM and KMC chains appear to continue using the same lube, which leaves a tacky feel after it dries. As this thread and others have speculated, they seem to compromise on a substance that offers a good compromise between a lube and protective finish for long term storage. Feels a bit like cosmoline to me, minus the funky odor. It's closer to motorcycle chain oil, which quickly dries to a thick, tacky finish that lasts through at least a few rainy rides.

I used to be a chain lube nerd and still do occasionally strip a new chain to redo with wax, mostly for one road bike that I'll take out to hunt Strava PRs (forget KOMs, those are beyond my 62 y/o legs and lungs). Mostly I like wax because it's cleaner and all my bikes are indoors. I used to find chain grease on my cats, along with my shins.

But I've noticed over the last year I'm more likely to just wipe down the external surface of a new KMC or other chain, slap it on and ride it for months without doing anything else. They don't really seem to need lubing that often.

When I do lube a chain now, I'll just apply the tiniest drop every few links, around 10-12 droplets, and ride or crank the chain around to distribute it. I'll do that maybe once a week or every couple of weeks. I'm using a lot less lube, cleaning up a lot less mess splattered on my rims, chainstays, floor, etc. Seems to work just as well.

I get more benefit from switching my go-fast bike to latex tubes than I ever did from fussing over chain lube. Dunno if it's really faster, despite the claimed 3-5 Watt advantage. But latex tubes are really comfy on our harsh chipseal roads.

davidad

Second paragraph. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

Sy Reene

Yes, that's one major source for one side of the continuing debate. As you referenced:
"A myth that is difficult to dispel is the story that grease on a new chain, fresh out of the package, is not a lubricant but rather a preservative that must be removed. This piece of bicycling myth and lore thrives despite its illogic."

I believe that the stuff that comes on a chain is BOTH a preservative, and a lubricant. However I believe it is sticky, and probably not a very good lubricant (but certainly better than a dry chain would be). When the manufacturers' coating is spoken of as 'best', I think it's from the standpoint of protective ability and it's tenacity to remain on the chain for a long time. However, I don't think it's clean running, nor the most frictionless option out there. I would like to see the Friction Facts or Silca whatnot lube/chain studies actually include factory prepped chains. Curiously they haven't, isn't it?

As to Clean running chains.. FWIW, I think it's also not correct when Sheldon says this a little further down in that article:
"The black stuff is oil colored by steel wear particles, nearly all of which come from pin and sleeve wear, the wear that causes pitch elongation. The rate of wear is dependent primarily on how clean the chain is internally rather than visible external cleanliness that gets the most attention.

Only when a dirty chain is oiled, or has excessive oil on it, can this grit move inside to cause damage. Commercial abrasive grinding paste is made of oil and silicon dioxide (sand) and silicon carbide (sand). You couldn't do it better if you tried to destroy a chain, than to oil it when dirty."

So, I agree with the first paragraph, but then I'm scratching my head as to why he thinks that none of the grit would also be inside the chain causing wear.. unless you happen to oil the chain without cleaning it first? Anyone who has ever soaked even a clean-looking, fully wiped down used chain, in some mineral spirits, should be able to attest to how much black stuff comes out with a bit of shaking.

Running a chain out of the factory packaging for a few hundred miles, I'm thinking is a good way to jumpstart internal roller/pin chain wear.

cyccommute 

I agree with Brown that the wax on the chain is a lubricant but I remove it prior to use because of past experience with the material. I use wax-based chain lubricant and if the factory lubricant isn’t cleaned off first, the chain is almost as greasy as if I use oil. Removing it results in a clean drivetrain for the entire lifetime of the chain.

Tests done on chains have shown that bicycle chains experience very little heat during use which means that friction is of little concern to the ordinary rider. It may make a difference in races where 100th of a secon are important but not out in the real world. The “stickiness” of the factory lubricant is a plus. The lubricant stays in place and doesn’t act as a vehicle to pump the grit into the chain. Since it doesn’t move, all the grit stays on the outside of the chain.

No. That is exactly correct. Oil isn’t black. It is amber colored or colorless. The grit on the chain isn’t black. Silicon dioxide...quartz...is usually colorless. Sand is only tan because of other minerals in the sand. Silicon carbide is black but it isn’t likely to be out in nature much because it’s a relatively rare mineral. The only thing that can produce the black oil that is so common on bicycle chains is the wear products of the steel of the chain. The black substance is probably close to a ferrofluid although the particles probably have too wide a size range for it to react to magnets the same way a ferrofluid would.

I would disagree with him on the “excess oil on it” statement. Any oil is going to be able to trap and move grit into the chain. The constant wiping that oil-based lubricant users go through is due to the oil flowing off the chain. Oil flow is oil movement which means grit is being carried with it.

Wax and wax-based lubricant don’t flow so the grit doesn’t get moved into the chain. There is no pumping action like with oil. Wax and wax-based lube chains don’t necessarily last longer...about 3000 miles for both types of lubricant...because of other factors. The lack of movement of the wax means that the metal-to-metal interfaces have less lubrication than with oil. But oil carries grit so the chain wears at about the same rate. I find that I’d rather not have to clean all the time to get the same mileage.

I don’t think he is saying that none of the grit gets inside the chain. It obviously does since every oil lubricated chain is going to end up black and oily. Wax lubricated chains wear but the mechanism is different.

I also wouldn’t give too much credence to the grit you see in a mineral spirit wash. The grit you see isn’t a problem. The gap between the plates is too small for grit that would go past it to be visible. The damaging minerals are likely on a micrometer to nanometer scale. Anything in the millimeter range isn’t going to cause damage.

Not really. Chains are going to wear no matter what you do to them. Leaving the factory lubricant on for a couple of hundred miles keeps the grit out for the most part. Removing it and replacing it with an oil is just a way to get the grit into it earlier.

davidad

Your wrong. Why the hell would manufacturers worry about rust on an item that is turned over fairly quickly.
I ride a new chain between 800 and 1000 miles before I remove it and clean it an ultrasonic cleaner. I relube with a chainsaw bar oil unscented mineral spirits mix.

Sy Reene

Yeah, I wasn't saying I disagreed with what the material was.. rather the second part of the paragraph about the below referenced stuff.

So what I'm saying is that Sheldon says the black stuff is coming from wearing of steel stuff that is at least partly (if not mostly) INSIDE the chain. Tenacious grease used to 'lubricate' a factory chain, helps that stuff stick and stay there. By not using a frequent lube of some sort (many at least advertise a self-cleaning/flushing action such as RnR Gold, etc), means it stays there for (above poster ref 800-1000) for many hundreds of miles. The lack of 'pumping action' you say doesn't exist to move grit into a chain, also implies there's no pumping action to likewise move it out of the chain.

Also, I'd guess any other types of non-wear based road grit can get inside a chain if washed in thru any moisture or wet riding (eg. just a couple dirty puddles could suffice). As the water carrier evaporates, the grit is left stuck to sticky grease.

Sy Reene

I'm guessing the manufacturers think it's a good idea (and for most folks it's actually perfectly fine) to sell something usable right out of the bag. FWIW, the brand new chain I just received from Amazon (KMC 11-speed) had a feb 2019 manufacture date, and I'd guess maybe there are retailers with slower turnover than Amazon. Mind you, I don't know how long a completely untreated/unlubed chain would last without visible corrosion.