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How much longer does my chain need to be?

Old 09-20-20, 08:24 PM
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wolfpack95
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How much longer does my chain need to be?

Changing from 12-27 cassette to 12-30 and Dura-Ace RD circa 2008 to Ultegra long cage 2018. How much longer does my chain need to be?
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Old 09-20-20, 08:35 PM
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It needs to be the correct length. It's not worth trying to figure out how many links that is, it's just easier to put a chain on and size it correctly. Don't overthink simple tasks.
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Old 09-20-20, 08:55 PM
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How much too long is your current chain?
https://sram.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ar...g-a-new-chain-
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Old 09-21-20, 09:19 AM
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If your small/small combo stays the same, and the length was correct to begin with, the usual method will only tell you that you have the longest chain possible. If that length doesn't work on your big/big combo you are SOL. I went from a 13/26 to a 13/29 just this past week and didn't change the length as the small/small measurement was already correct based on maximum wrap. It happened that it still worked.
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Old 09-21-20, 10:18 AM
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Which version of Ultegra rear derailleur? The Ultegra 11 speed rear derailleurs will not work with 2008 10 speed shifters
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Old 09-21-20, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by zacster
If your small/small combo stays the same, and the length was correct to begin with, the usual method will only tell you that you have the longest chain possible. If that length doesn't work on your big/big combo you are SOL. I went from a 13/26 to a 13/29 just this past week and didn't change the length as the small/small measurement was already correct based on maximum wrap. It happened that it still worked.
Campy is the only one that uses small-small, the rest of the world uses big-big. Yes, you really don’t want to fold a derailleur cage back on itself, but it is not the end of the world if you inadvertently shift into small-small.

Since it is a new cassette, the chain should be replaced. Just add a couple of links and see how it works. Chances are the old length might work.

Once on the bike you can see the derailleur swing with a shorter chain, by folding it.

John
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Old 09-21-20, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Campy is the only one that uses small-small, the rest of the world uses big-big. Yes, you really don’t want to fold a derailleur cage back on itself, but it is not the end of the world if you inadvertently shift into small-small.

John
To tell the truth, I didn't think the small/small measurement made much sense either, but I have Campy. It is part of the secret Campy initiation ceremony.

Anyway it all worked out and I'm happy with my new chainring/cassette combo and chain. It is all very quiet. I need to find a hill steep enough to try the 34/29 combo where I'm not just spinning furiously. Maybe I'll retry Haleakala someday, and also get out west again.
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Old 09-21-20, 11:09 PM
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If you try Haleakala, make sure the brakes are good... lol!

I’d want discs.

John
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Old 09-22-20, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
If you try Haleakala, make sure the brakes are good... lol!

I’d want discs.

John
I did it with rim brakes the first time but didn't make it to the top. It is a blast going down in any case. The best part was when I got to the bottom in Paia and I'm checking out my options for food I hear someone call me. It was my brother in law and he was with his family at the corner spot. The kids ordered too much as they usually do and there were two plates of food. He ordered me a beer and I ate their barely touched burgers and fries, all of it. This was a big extended family vacation get together in Maui.

I think I had a 34-27 as the lowest gear going up, and I'd had a cold all week. Training for a ride like that is difficult when you live in flat Brooklyn. No amount of riding here will prepare you for the nonstop climbing that Haleakala is. I'd go to the hills in Northern NJ/Rockland County but they don't compare. Here's a thread from immediately after I did it:
All the reasons and excuses I didn't make it up the volcano

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Old 09-22-20, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by zacster
To tell the truth, I didn't think the small/small measurement made much sense either, but I have Campy. It is part of the secret Campy initiation ceremony.

Anyway it all worked out and I'm happy with my new chainring/cassette combo and chain. It is all very quiet. I need to find a hill steep enough to try the 34/29 combo where I'm not just spinning furiously. Maybe I'll retry Haleakala someday, and also get out west again.
If your drivetrain is within the spec (total capacity AND large cog) using small/small gets you the longest (safest) chain w/o having slack in small/small. If you swap wheels and/or cassettes out for different types of rides this definitely comes in handy. If you don it guarantees the smoothest possible running drivetrain when you go big/big.
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Old 09-22-20, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
If your drivetrain is within the spec (total capacity AND large cog) using small/small gets you the longest (safest) chain w/o having slack in small/small. If you swap wheels and/or cassettes out for different types of rides this definitely comes in handy. If you don it guarantees the smoothest possible running drivetrain when you go big/big.
I'm actually out of spec according to Campy but it works beautifully. The 50/29 combo even works and is quiet. After I installed the cassette and chain I started hearing a noise I hadn't heard before because the drivetrain got so quiet. I knew what it was immediately though, the ping, ping, ping of a loose spoke, so I put my bike on the stand and retensioned the wheel. I also pulled the dish a bit over to the non-drive side as the fatter tire would rub the drive side slightly if I didn't have the QR just right. I figured that must mean the dish was off. I built this wheel ages ago myself and I didn't have a dishing tool, and I still don't. It didn't matter until I put fatter tires on.
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Old 09-26-20, 01:17 PM
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Update: So the Ultegra 11-speed chain with 116 links and quick link connector was the perfect length out of the box. I had temporarily lengthened my old chain for the new cassette to get a couple of short rides in while waiting to receive the new chain. This allowed me to match lengths. Assuming 12-30t cassette, 53-39 rings and a long cage RD are a popular combination, makes sense that chain length would be right out of the box. First experience with direct link connector and after some frustration, a trip to local bike shop was very helpful for getting it to snap in place. Thanks Roswell Bikes.
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Old 09-26-20, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
Which version of Ultegra rear derailleur? The Ultegra 11 speed rear derailleurs will not work with 2008 10 speed shifters
I had 2008 Dura-Ace rear derailleur (short) which wouldn’t accommodate a bigger cassette so I changed it out to a 2018 long cage version. I bought the bike with DA RD and Ultegra FD.

So the next upgrade will be 11 speed shifters.
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Old 09-26-20, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfpack95
I had 2008 Dura-Ace rear derailleur (short) which wouldn’t accommodate a bigger cassette so I changed it out to a 2018 long cage version. I bought the bike with DA RD and Ultegra FD.

So the next upgrade will be 11 speed shifters.
Technically there is no such thing as an 11 spd 'long' cage road derailleur. There are short (ss) and medium (gs).
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Old 09-27-20, 09:12 AM
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If there is one area that Shimano has over Campy it is in long cage derailleurs since their MTB components all fit into that category. I put an XT 10sp Dynasys rear derailleur on my commuter bike and I have an 11-34 cassette and triple up front and it shifts every bit as well as my Chorus and with a light touch too all the way up and down. It makes its way into their road groups.
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