Shifter derailleur incompatibility on 9 speed Shimano
#26
Full Member
Uugh....
The problem I am having here is that I want to be able to take a customer rep’s word as authoritative, but then they say something so stupid that I have to seriously wonder if they just make it all up as they go along.
I am not saying it is impossible that the pull ratio was changed for this one group (they did it on Tiagra), but the explanation as to why is utterly absurd. There are a whole
mess of Shadow RDs that use the standard 7-8-9 MTB 7-8-9-10 Road pull ratio.
If they did change it, what did they change it to? Is it a Dyna-Sys 10 speed ratio?
The problem I am having here is that I want to be able to take a customer rep’s word as authoritative, but then they say something so stupid that I have to seriously wonder if they just make it all up as they go along.
I am not saying it is impossible that the pull ratio was changed for this one group (they did it on Tiagra), but the explanation as to why is utterly absurd. There are a whole
mess of Shadow RDs that use the standard 7-8-9 MTB 7-8-9-10 Road pull ratio.
If they did change it, what did they change it to? Is it a Dyna-Sys 10 speed ratio?
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,895
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 67 Times
in
53 Posts
I think I'm seeing where these Shimano customer reps are getting mixed up, it's on the Compatibility chart.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/co...432&acid=C-432
First it shows all 9 speed shifters are compatible with all 9 speed rear derailleurs........
Then further down the page, the separation of the SL (shift lever) and the ST (shift/brake lever) in the first box, sort of looks to be showing certain shifters matching with shadow derailleurs and other shifters matching with non shadow derailleurs.
All of the SL/ST in the first box are compatible with the shadow and non shadow rear derailleurs in their separate boxes.
I'd say the problem with that last diagram is that it's being misinterpreted by the Shimano customer service.
Here's a couple of Shimano docs showing the XT RD-M772 (shadow) and XT RD-M771 (non shadow) as both using the same XT SL-M770 shifter.
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W60A
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W70B
Here's some other Shimano docs showing the Deore RD-M592 (shadow) and Deore RD-M591 (non shadow) as both using the same Deore SL-M590 shifter.
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/6S90A
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W70B
The cable pull of the RD-M4000 is no different to any other Shimano 9 speed rear derailleur.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/co...432&acid=C-432
First it shows all 9 speed shifters are compatible with all 9 speed rear derailleurs........
Then further down the page, the separation of the SL (shift lever) and the ST (shift/brake lever) in the first box, sort of looks to be showing certain shifters matching with shadow derailleurs and other shifters matching with non shadow derailleurs.
All of the SL/ST in the first box are compatible with the shadow and non shadow rear derailleurs in their separate boxes.
I'd say the problem with that last diagram is that it's being misinterpreted by the Shimano customer service.
Here's a couple of Shimano docs showing the XT RD-M772 (shadow) and XT RD-M771 (non shadow) as both using the same XT SL-M770 shifter.
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W60A
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W70B
Here's some other Shimano docs showing the Deore RD-M592 (shadow) and Deore RD-M591 (non shadow) as both using the same Deore SL-M590 shifter.
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/6S90A
https://si.shimano.com/#/en/SI/5W70B
The cable pull of the RD-M4000 is no different to any other Shimano 9 speed rear derailleur.
#29
Junior Member
FWIW I've been having nothing but issues with my 2010 Jamis Aurora Elite, which uses Shimano 9 speed road components in the front and MTB components in the rear. I've gone from a RD-M771 to RD-M772 to RD-M592. With the current RD-M592 (bought brand new) I can shift through cogs 1-7 ok, when I try to shift into cog 8 it keeps slipping back between 7 and 8 and I can then shift into cog 9 OK because I have the limit screw set in such a way that it works.
I bought the bike used in May, one shop said the un-bent the derailleur hanger, one shop said my RD-M772 had a bent cage (bought it used) and so now here I am with the M592 still not shifting quite right. I'll take a look through the info in this thread to see if my pinch bolt or b-hanger is maybe a touch out of wack.
I've already replaced the cables and cable housings, bottom bracket cable guide and oiled the shift levers. Funkyness with 8th cog happens on any of the front 3 chain rings, so I don't think it's a chain line issue (though I did replace the FSA crank/BB with a Shimano hollowtech crank/BB).
I bought the bike used in May, one shop said the un-bent the derailleur hanger, one shop said my RD-M772 had a bent cage (bought it used) and so now here I am with the M592 still not shifting quite right. I'll take a look through the info in this thread to see if my pinch bolt or b-hanger is maybe a touch out of wack.
I've already replaced the cables and cable housings, bottom bracket cable guide and oiled the shift levers. Funkyness with 8th cog happens on any of the front 3 chain rings, so I don't think it's a chain line issue (though I did replace the FSA crank/BB with a Shimano hollowtech crank/BB).
#32
Junior Member
#33
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
I would double check the alignment of both the hanger as well as the b-link (if your rd has one). On my XT RD the b-link is way less beefy than the actual hanger..
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,409
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1103 Post(s)
Liked 1,824 Times
in
878 Posts
Man I must be living right. On one of my bikes I have Campy 10 speed Ergo shifters, a Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur and a SRAM 9 speed 11-32 cassette. Or, maybe my hearing is so bad it's back there complaining and I don't know about it
#36
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Foothills of West Central Maine
Posts: 410
Bikes: 2007 Motobecane Fantom Cross Expert, 2020 Motobecane Omni Strada Pro Disc (700c gravel bike), 2021 Motobecane Elite Adventure with Bafang 500W rear hub drive
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times
in
94 Posts
I think Cobba had it right
Several posts indicate I was mistaken, and had I attached the cable on outboard side it would have worked. Had the RD come with instructions or a diagram, or had Shimano CS not given me bad info, this thread would not have existed. It simply looked to me like it was designed to mount cable inboard so the tab below cable clamp would direct cable end away from spokes rather than towards them. Had I not been in a hurry to return the Alivio RD before return window expired, I would have followed Cobba's advice. Live and learn! Too bad for me; the Alivio has a more direct cable route to RD, which i liked better, though the Sora seems to work just fine.