mr,grumpy 

I was just visiting NYCthis last weekend and ebikes are all over Brooklyn. And they don't look like the kind any one is "affording". Sketchy, shaky contraptions with giant aluminum batteries on them. IMHO they are too fast for that environment and are piloted by people who wouldn't normally ride a bike, so are low-skilled operators. They are faster than any moped/scooter that I have ever seen.

Falkon 

I feel the same way. I did some searching and found some good, torque-sensing, mid-drive conversion kits. The torque-sensing pedal assist feels so natural to me, unlike any other motorized bike I've used. It doesn't feel like a moped, it feels like a bicycle. The benefit I see here is that you're no longer so worried about weight.

I've got a new gravel bike on order to be a nice commuter, but there are things that influenced the decision. I may be carrying work stuff and running a rack and fenders, but I don't want to pedal a heavy, upright bike up the hills I gotta tackle every day. A more aerodynamic position makes for a much better commute, especially when you're living in a place that thinks of bike lanes as some sort of communist plot. After trying out one of the mid-drive e-bikes, it kinda opened up some possibilities. A bike that can be upright and heavier but without me wanting to die going up the hills? Being able to climb the hills closer to the speed of traffic instead of like 7 mph? Not having to worry as much about weight, wind resistance, or how I'm going to plan for arriving at work soaked in sweat? So, I'm looking at essentially building up a bike that's beautiful and classy like an old English 3-speed or a dutch bike but with the ability to really go somewhere and climb hills. There's a slight issue in that these old Raleighs and the like didn't use standard BB widths and threads, which makes the conversion kits a bit harder to work with. So, looking around for something that had the old, pretty, triangle frame style but a bit more modern components, I found Sartori Bikes. To me, these things are stupid classy. From what I can tell, you can't get 'em outside of Europe though. Also, they have more limitations. The conversion kits they use are made by the same company as the one I've been eyeing, only you can them here with a good 750 watts of power and 52v batteries. Electra made their Amsterdam bikes, which would also be good for conversion. The end idea here is a comfortable, classy e-bike that still gives you the exercise but can also help you climb a good hill closer to the speed of traffic.

Korina

@Falkon, those are nice-looking bikes; it sounds like one of those would fit the bill for you. Hills, man, they're merciless.

If I'm very lucky and keep riding, I hope I won't need an e-bike for another 10 - 15 years; I'm 56 now, and in a couple of years the Humboldt Bay Trail will be complete and my 8-mile flat-as-a-pancake commute will be even better. No more riding on the highway! Anywho, I think battery technology will have improved lots by then, and/or ebikes will have come down to plausible prices. Fingers crossed.

Falkon 

I'm with ya. I live in the foothills of the Appalachians, and it can be flat or hilly, depending on where you are. My commute is also eight miles with about three hills. They're not bad, but it's a pain when you're carrying all the work gear. Even the expensive e-bikes like the Treks are cheaper than a motorcycle or car. There really are some affordable ones out there as well. I don't have a need. The bike I have on order is your standard gravel road bike. My thoughts are that with the assist you don't have to put so much thought into things like weight, aerodynamics, wearing workout/cycling clothing to wick away the sweat, or how slow you're climbing the hills compared to the traffic going by you. Your commute may not be totally sweat free, but it may be manageable enough that you don't arrive totally drenched like you tend to here in the south. If I'm not worried so much about weight, aerodynamics, and being able to get up the hills, I want the classy, upright, lugged steel roadster style bike. Maybe I'll find a way to get one of these Sartori bikes here sometime. They seem to be about the only ones making such pretty bikes unless you get a custom frame made. The prices I've seen for those are running around $2500 for the frame and fork alone. No thanks.

Worknomore

Yrs I can and no I wouldn't. I like the effort.

Leisesturm

This thread makes me very sad. I didn't know it was a dead thread until almost to the end. OMG we are truly toast. This thread could have been started today and nothing would be different. Why are Americans so DUMB? I can say that, I am American. "If I need to go further than ____ I'll just drive my car!" Right. Until you can't anymore. That won't be long now. Americans don't realize just how much our vocal disinterest in the disintegration of the environment is p*ss*ng off the rest of the world. Most don't much care what anyone outside our borders thinks. I pray that we never have to. This much is clear: e-bikes are neither here nor there as far as Earth's future. Ride one if you want, don't ride one if you don't want. However, your mid-90's and onward gasoline powered single driver commuter automobile is not something any rational person can defend any longer. If all that happened was that everyone of the Billions of cars, trucks, motorcycles, diesel locomotives and container ships were migrated to electric propulsion, humanity could probably survive. If that does not happen, we do not. It's really that simple. And it's not future generations survival we are talking about. We have already begun to die from the failure to embrace an all-electric transportation paradigm. It will only get worse.

harshbarj

In general no. I'd still ride my 5 speed most days. However in the winter I would be tempted on the really cold days. I might even be tempted to use it when I haul heavy loads of 300lbs or more. But I'd bet I'd use it less than 10 days a year. Riding to and from work is really the only activity I have, so I'd not want to eliminate it and go back to getting no real exercise.

Leisesturm

About that ... I mean, you guys can't hate me anymore today, I may as well go all the way. Re: exercise, activity, fitness ... whatever you want to call it. Your commute is really NOT the best place to get it! I'm sorry, it must be said. If you are doing it (your commute) right, you will be stopping for red lights and small children, and using due caution and defensiveness in sketchy situations. Your heart rate will not be consistently in the best zone for cardiac and aerobic improvement. Cycling does little to increase lean muscle mass which is something that decreases by something like 1%/yr. after later middle age.

If your commute is your only exercise you are not having a quality existence. A treadmill or elliptical machine at home or a gym membership are near musts for someone that wants to be able to take care of themselves in their Senior Years. Ideally, in addition to the usual cardio work you will incorporate several heavy lifting exercises to your routine. Living longer because of exercise has been debunked. Living WELL because of exercise has not been debunked! Maybe you don't care now, but you will. You will want your kids to come help you but they will be busy with their own lives. I know, I know, you could get hit by a truck two weeks from now (or I could) but what if that does not happen? Because of my work I am in contact with a lot more old people than most and many are quite infirm and wishing they were not here anymore. Work your body hard at least 3x/wk in a gym or on a machine. Your commute is for staying out of the collision path of Escalades and F150's.

2old

To get back to the original question, I'd ride a Stromer (can't remember the model, but S1X comes to mind). I had a chance to do a long term test on their $5,000 model and it was superb. The pedal assist system was intuitive and 30 mph easy.

350htrr

and... With the internet, "available to spread all this knowledge", what are people "actually", doing about it... Practically nothing, they keep on buying bigger, and bigger SUV,'s or even worse, 1/2, 3/4, or even 1 Tons to drive around as a "car"... Well, why "is this happening"...???? Because of vested interests in oil & gas... JMO...

350htrr

and... That is why people are … "aging badly today"... I just love that term, it's sssssooo well explains todays problems, that the older people have in todays society, they are aging badly… .more than ever/never before did this happen, people used to live fine , basically all their livers, and... booom they died, like real quick… AND, you could actually equate this to the simple fact that they do "not ride a bicycle" today but drive cars...

rhm

Yup.

​​​​​​If an ebike replaces a car, that's good. If an ebike replaces a real bike, that's not good.
This is a bicycle forum. We're here because we ride bikes. Not because we drive cars.
This thread would make a whole lot more sense in a car forum.

Leisesturm

I just might be the only person posting in this thread who (although able to) does not drive a car. Alright, maybe there is one other. The rest (maybe you too) mostly drive. Even on the "Living Car Free" forum the majority of regulars mostly drive. On the "Commuting" forum most commute by bike but other trips and errands are by car. I don't frequent any automotive forums but plenty of drivers have seen this thread already. There will be more tomorrow. E-bikes are not a resident evil. If an e-bike replaces a 'real bike' that is neither good nor bad. It is what it is. An e-bike still has to be pedaled. It is still a bicycle. How is it 'cheating' if no one is in a competition event? The least efficient e-bike is thousands of times more efficient than a car, just by virtue of the fact that the e-bike weighs around 50lbs. and the car weighs around 4,000lbs. Both move only one person at a time! Yah, the car has the potential to move more. How many actually do that?

rhm

Well, I don't know what other people do when they're not commuting by bike. That's not my business. In my case, yes, it's true, I do drive occasionally. I don't see how I can reduce my driving further without moving to a city where grocery shopping can be done by bike, and so on. While I aspire to be car free, my behavior is controlled by my reluctance to alienate my wife and family. That's only part of the reason why I don't post on the "Living Car Free" forum, though.

Korina

My feet, my (analog) bike, and my bus pass take care of about 90% of my transportation needs. Does that count?

zebreaux

I ordered a new Roll a couple of days ago. If the Como, e-bike, wouldn’t have been over 3 times the price I would have bought it instead. For an old guy with bad knees the pedal assist, even on the lowest setting, is amazing.

Yes, I would buy an e-bike.

Buglady

If you'll accept a word from a mechanic who's been dealing with Stromers... don't. They are luxurious and look beautifully designed, but they are a *nightmare* to repair. Troubleshooting one bike took 3 months, as Stromer insisted on shipping us one component at a time to test. And fixing a flat tire on the rear (drive) wheel requires disconnecting 3 wires, and undoing a 19mm nut that takes as much torque as a motor vehicle lug nut.

Bosch and Shimano STePS mid-drive systems are far simpler and much faster to repair; they have onboard diagnostic software, and the electric components are all plug-and-play. In addition, they use standard bike parts (chains, cassettes, brakes, but also handlebar, stem, etc) rather than Stromer's proprietary stem and handlebar design (that had a recall last summer).

Bosch has been making electric motors for over a century so I tend to trust them the most, personally.

Buglady

I haven't owned a car since 2005. I do hold a valid driver's license and very occasionally (like twice a year) drive my sister's car when picking up the kids or going to another city. This has no bearing on my personal choice to use an e-bike as my primary vehicle.

OmegaWolf

If I had a commute that was 20+ miles each way and was safe to do by bike and had a safe place to store the bike at work I would consider getting an e-bike if I found an affordable one I liked. I would probably only use it for commuting and running errands though.

2old

To get back to the original question, I would use an ebike for commuting (if I commuted by bike) for the same reason I use an ebike for errands, it's faster (don't tell anybody, but my commuter will go 33 - 35 mph).

ecovelo

This thread has taken some interesting turns in its almost 5 year history I am actually in the process selling off ~ 1/2 of my bicycle collection and intend on trying a Tern Vektron in the coming Spring. I am fortunate enough to be in a position where "affordability" is not so much a factor - but pragmatism (along with curiosity) is a motivating factor in both the process of letting go (of some beloved bicycles) and trying do the majority of my commuting on a pedal-assist electric bike.

I am celebrating 50 years of cycling (hard to believe) and my frequency of traveling by bicycle has diminished greatly the last 4 years, mostly due to injury. I live in the suburbs (very bicycle unfriendly) and my commute to work is short - just 4 miles. I am fortunate in that I can take mostly quiet suburban streets, but do contend with traffic (which includes unconscious drivers of course) at several major intersections en route. I work odd shifts (mostly swing) and often commute home late at night (which I actually love - especially in Winter). My job is quite physical - and while I often feel great riding too work...it's difficult to tell ahead of time if the ride home will be painful. I have found it trickier than usual to get back to commuting regularly; I find my reflexes are slower and often my proprioception is way off... especially with my last "comeback" from surgery. Other than trying some dirt "jumps" on a Schwinn Varsity that was way too big for me in the 70's - this is the first time I've felt this consistently nervous/vulnerable on a bicycle. With all that said... I love cycling too much to call it a day! I am hoping that opening a new chapter with "e-assist" will get me out of my car (or off my moped) and commuting by bicycle more consistently. If the e-assist bores me or I want to get a little more of a bicycle workout - I still have a few bicycles to choose from in the stable!

tim24k

plus one,
If you use it you lose it!
I ride bicycles for exercise. If I wanted to get there fast I would ride my motorcycle.

350htrr

The E-Assist bicycle is/would be PERFECT for your situation... IMO Make sure you get one that can be ridden without the motor being to be needing to be on.... Then you can still ride a normal bicycle or when you feel the need of some assist then you can ride it as a hybrid, pedal and get motor assistance, or even a throttle and ride it like a moped...

Archwhorides 

I have a 10 mile commute downtown, which I enjoy daily on my hybrid commuter, except in the following conditions:

1. Cold weather with frozen precip requiring studs, which turns my ride home into an unwelcome and lengthly slog.
2. Extremely hot/humid weather, which has me arriving at the office in a puddle, with an infinite cool-down time.

I just received a hopeful answer to these conditions, which is a fairly lightweight 38 pound mid-drive pedal-assist bike (assist limit is 20 mph) that I can run with solid 4-row studded tires during the winter and cushy balloon tires during the hottest periods of August. The 40-50 km advertised range is adequate for my daily round-trip run and the 15 minute time savings each way with the low-level assist compensates for the extra drag of studs, extra load, and frozen precip in the winter, which will give me the same workout and commute duration as my hybrid in nicer weather.

I don't think I'll be dropping my hybrid commuter during better weather, but I'll be happy for the electric tailwind when I need it.

ecovelo

Thank you for the insight!