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Do you think there's life beyond Earth?

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View Poll Results: Is there life outside our planet?
Yes, but only simple (eg microbial)
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Yes, probably intelligent life too
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Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

Do you think there's life beyond Earth?

Old 11-12-19, 04:10 PM
  #26  
Seattle Forrest
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Is there life on Earth?
Yeah, but we're working hard to change that.
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Old 11-12-19, 04:13 PM
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There are three things that keep me from atheism, they are

Existence
Life
Consciousness

The conditions that allow life and consciousness here could allow them anywhere in the vast universe, and yet the distance can prevent us from ever knowing about it. Isn't it mind bending?
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Old 11-12-19, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
Even on our own planet, there are various forms of life that show certain degrees of "intelligence". Does that necessarily mean that the scale and size of the cosmos is an indicator of anything like ours?

The premise that scale and size somehow leads towards a mathematical proof is like considering physics without the metaphysics. Way too limited.
Drake equation? That is all based on size and scale. there must be other planets within similar habitable zones...now other than carbon based??....your imagination is as good as mine...

good discussion though, i like this thread.

JAG
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Old 11-12-19, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
If you're in the camp that we're here because of divine intervention I'm not sure why you'd assume only one planet in all that space would be inhabited by life, and that humans would be the epitome of the life that exists.
The C.S. Lewis Space Trilogy begins with a novel called 'Out of the Silent Planet' for exactly that reason
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Old 11-12-19, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
On ours, plants "eat" chemicals in the soil, because that's what's available to them and what they adapted to.
Actually, they mostly 'eat' and are made of carbon from the air (CO2). If their mass came from the soil, every tree would fall into its own sinkhole.
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Old 11-12-19, 05:10 PM
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And yet plants remove chemicals (nutrients) from the soil. That's why farmers rotate crops and one reason the let fields go fallow. It's also why plants that fix nitrogen are pioneer species.
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Old 11-12-19, 05:12 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
Even on our own planet, there are various forms of life that show certain degrees of "intelligence". Does that necessarily mean that the scale and size of the cosmos is an indicator of anything like ours?

The premise that scale and size somehow leads towards a mathematical proof is like considering physics without the metaphysics. Way too limited.
It's not proof, obviously; it's convincing reasoning for many people.
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Old 11-12-19, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
And yet plants remove chemicals (nutrients) from the soil. That's why farmers rotate crops and one reason the let fields go fallow. It's also why plants that fix nitrogen are pioneer species.
Yeah, but that's like saying humans eat multivitamins, by mass it's a miniscule fraction of what eating is all about
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Old 11-12-19, 05:26 PM
  #34  
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I think it's more accurate to say plants breathe carbon dioxide, but in any case we're down in the weeds. The point is that redwoods can't eat dogs and they can't breathe ammonia, because that's not what they evolved to be capable of. Along the same lines, aliens from other worlds that have never seen a human before can't be expected to be able to digest one.
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Old 11-13-19, 08:54 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by sirjag View Post
Drake equation? That is all based on size and scale. there must be other planets within similar habitable zones...now other than carbon based??....your imagination is as good as mine...

good discussion though, i like this thread.

JAG
Short answer on Drake equation from wiki

The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[1][2]

The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake, not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations, but as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).[3][4] The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of other radio-communicative life.[3] It is more properly thought of as an approximation rather than as a serious attempt to determine a precise number.

Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
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Old 11-13-19, 08:55 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It's not proof, obviously; it's convincing reasoning for many people.
The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[1][2]

The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake, not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations, but as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).[3][4] The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of other radio-communicative life.[3] It is more properly thought of as an approximation rather than as a serious attempt to determine a precise number.

Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
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Old 11-13-19, 10:20 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[1]
[2]

The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake, not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations, but as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).[3]
[4] The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of other radio-communicative life.[3] It is more properly thought of as an approximation rather than as a serious attempt to determine a precise number.

Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
Oh i understand the limitations of the drake....but even the smallest possible factors still give us literally thousands of probable habitable planets...Like i said..we are talking about numbers here that human brains cant even process. Math dictates there must be other life in the universe.
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Old 11-13-19, 11:03 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy.[1]
[2]

The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake, not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations, but as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the first scientific meeting on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI).[3]
[4] The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of other radio-communicative life.[3] It is more properly thought of as an approximation rather than as a serious attempt to determine a precise number.

Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
Can you summarize your thoughts in your own words, or at least in modern terms? 🙂
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Old 11-13-19, 01:17 PM
  #39  
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We are a dangerous self destructive species. Humans are disgusting creatures. We get ahold of alien technology and first thing we try to do is weaponize it. That is why ET only lets us have a little at a time. Extraterrestrial civilizations monitor us as unruly children no telling how many times they have stopped nuclear war. Since we are now just starting to get into space the aliens argue on whoís turn it is is no keep an eye on the stupid humans. Make sure those humans donít screw anything up. Like dude we watched those foolish humanoids for the last decade it is youíre turn.

Last edited by Hondo Gravel; 11-13-19 at 01:19 PM. Reason: Ask ET for a change.
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Old 11-13-19, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sirjag View Post
Oh i understand the limitations of the drake....but even the smallest possible factors still give us literally thousands of probable habitable planets...Like i said..we are talking about numbers here that human brains cant even process. Math dictates there must be other life in the universe.
Habitable, sure. But (and now that we're in P&R I can say this) intelligent design advocates argue that f1=P(life|habitability) and fi=P(intelligence|life) are so 'astronomically' small that they anti-dwarf the large numbers and dictate that there is no reasonable probability that human 'intelligent' life could have emerged without the intervention of an Intelligent Designer.
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Old 11-13-19, 02:41 PM
  #41  
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@RubeRad we're not in P&R, we're in foo. It was the climate change thread that got moved, not this one (yet).

I'll have to look for the link (again), they've found a chemical reaction that leads from ordinary stuff to RNA.
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Old 11-13-19, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Habitable, sure. But (and now that we're in P&R I can say this) intelligent design advocates argue that f1=P(life|habitability) and fi=P(intelligence|life) are so 'astronomically' small that they anti-dwarf the large numbers and dictate that there is no reasonable probability that human 'intelligent' life could have emerged without the intervention of an Intelligent Designer.
There's a strong consensus that life on Earth got its start through RNA, a close chemical sibling of DNA. Over the last few decades, researchers have described how individual RNA bases can spontaneously polymerize, forming longer chains that could ultimately catalyze key chemical reactions, including building even longer RNA molecules. As a result, it's clear that RNA can perform two functions: carrying heritable genetic information just as DNA does and carrying out the instructions encoded by that information.

There's far less agreement, however, on how those RNA bases themselves first form. These bases have a combination of one of two types of flat, ringed structures linked to a small, ring-shaped sugar. Over time, researchers have found sets of chemical reactions that could start with simple chemicals likely to be found on the early Earth and end up with one of the three more complex chemicals needed to form RNA. But the conditions needed for these reactions weren't compatible, raising questions about how an RNA molecule could ever form from these reactions.

Now, a group of chemists has figured out a way to form the portions of RNA that give it its identity starting from a simple set of chemicals. The work relies on materials that can easily be provided by a volcanic environment. And driving the reactions forward requires little more than a few wet/dry cycles.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...our-rna-bases/
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Old 11-13-19, 03:10 PM
  #43  
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How far do you want to look?

What is the chance that another planet in the "goldilocks zone" developed life? 1000 to 1? 1 Million to 1? 1 Trillion to 1?

The current estimate on the number of stars is roughly: 7 x 10^22 (70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).

That is a lot of stars. Not all will have "goldilocks" planets, but some will.

It took several billion years for Humans to develop, but it is estimated that life started on Earth relatively quickly, indicating that development of life elsewhere might also happen quickly.
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Old 11-13-19, 03:30 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I think it's more accurate to say plants breathe carbon dioxide, but in any case we're down in the weeds. The point is that redwoods can't eat dogs and they can't breathe ammonia, because that's not what they evolved to be capable of. Along the same lines, aliens from other worlds that have never seen a human before can't be expected to be able to digest one.
Maybe we're good, and tasty, after being boiled in their favorite liquid. There ARE some foods that are poison to humans unless cooked...
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Old 11-13-19, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
@RubeRad we're not in P&R, we're in foo. It was the climate change thread that got moved, not this one (yet).

I'll have to look for the link (again), they've found a chemical reaction that leads from ordinary stuff to RNA.
I started the sort of climate change thread and it got moved to P&R? I got kicked out of P&R over a year ago. I didnít see anything political about climate change the subject stayed on track all the comments were scientifically speculated. I think I said when we were bored kids we would put firecrackers in fresh cow pies and run but JoJo didnít run and got covered. I guess someoneís feelings got hurt and I got kicked out. Way too sensitive. This thread has in IMO hasnít been political at all.
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Old 11-13-19, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
@RubeRad we're not in P&R, we're in foo. It was the climate change thread that got moved, not this one (yet).

I'll have to look for the link (again), they've found a chemical reaction that leads from ordinary stuff to RNA.
oopx sorry, crossed threads (PUN FULLY INTENDED)
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Old 11-13-19, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I started the sort of climate change thread and it got moved to P&R? I got kicked out of P&R over a year ago. I didnít see anything political about climate change the subject stayed on track all the comments were scientifically speculated. I think I said when we were bored kids we would put firecrackers in fresh cow pies and run but JoJo didnít run and got covered. I guess someoneís feelings got hurt and I got kicked out. Way too sensitive. This thread has in IMO hasnít been political at all.
Climate change shouldn't be a political debate, but reality is a contentious subject.
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Old 11-13-19, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I didnít see anything political about climate change
seriously?

the subject stayed on track all the comments were scientifically speculated.
Yes, until GamblerGORD53 showed up and ruined the vibe with his ALL CAPS and antagonistic attitude
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Old 11-13-19, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
seriously?


Yes, until GamblerGORD53 showed up and ruined the vibe with his ALL CAPS and antagonistic attitude
Iím just mad because I canít add to a thread I started because I got tossed from P&R And all over an exploding cow pie! Then I realized the exploding cow pie released methane into the atmosphere
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Old 11-13-19, 04:24 PM
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How can you get kicked out of P&R? I thought that's where all the contentious topics and people got quarantined to?

I know more than once fietsbob has been put on timeout where he could only post in P&R for a few weeks
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