Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Questions that keep one awake at night

Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Questions that keep one awake at night

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-19-18, 12:57 PM
  #1  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Questions that keep one awake at night

If I start a ride with both valve stems at 6:00, and both wheels and tires have the same diameter, why is it when I finish the ride, the valve stems are no longer in phase? (For example, one might be at 3:00 and the other at 11:00.)
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:14 PM
  #2  
DeadGrandpa
Senior Member
 
DeadGrandpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carolina
Posts: 1,215

Bikes: Too many, yet not enough.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 492 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 201 Posts
Because of the teeny tiny difference in the circumference of each tire due to the distortion caused by the (usually) heavier weight on the rear tire. This is commonly known as the difference between theory and reality. Or are you doing wheelies and just not telling us?
DeadGrandpa is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:22 PM
  #3  
Teamprovicycle
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Providence
Posts: 732

Bikes: Specialized tarmac sl2 giant tcx zero

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Bumps in the road ?
different brake forces applied to each wheel at different times .
tire gnomes?
wheel goblins?
Teamprovicycle is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:22 PM
  #4  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,237
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18412 Post(s)
Liked 15,532 Times in 7,328 Posts
Several reasons, which should be apparent.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:27 PM
  #5  
DanBraden
Often on Fritz
 
DanBraden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 536

Bikes: Franken-Fritz, Horse-Feathers, Junker

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
This is a great question!

Honestly never given it a moments consideration because I'm too exhausted by losing sleep over why those pesky valve stem nuts loosen when I ride!
So my hope is that these mysteries will cancel each other out and lead me to sleepin' nirvana!

/or maybe not..
//maybe something worse...

EDIT::Also, why the heck did I think I could reach down and tighten them while I'm riding? Mangled my hand pretty good...
DanBraden is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:28 PM
  #6  
avole
Banned.
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: France
Posts: 1,030

Bikes: Brompton, Time, Bianchi, Jan Janssen, Peugeot

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Where did I put my glasses?
avole is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:32 PM
  #7  
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
In addition to the reasons already given, your front tire travels a slightly longer distance whenever you make a turn since the rear wheel cuts the corner a bit more sharply.
prathmann is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:44 PM
  #8  
Ronsonic 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunny Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by DanBraden
This is a great question!

Honestly never given it a moments consideration because I'm too exhausted by losing sleep over why those pesky valve stem nuts loosen when I ride!
So my hope is that these mysteries will cancel each other out and lead me to sleepin' nirvana!

/or maybe not..
//maybe something worse...

EDIT::Also, why the heck did I think I could reach down and tighten them while I'm riding? Mangled my hand pretty good...
The one that got me is seeing a handlebar plug sticking out a bit and then just knocking it back in place with the heel of my hand.
Ronsonic is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:44 PM
  #9  
Colnago Mixte
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Center of Central CA
Posts: 1,582
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 897 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Stop roasting those tires every time you accelerate from a stop sign. You beast! Think of your poor tires for once.
Colnago Mixte is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 01:45 PM
  #10  
Ronsonic 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sunny Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa
Because of the teeny tiny difference in the circumference of each tire due to the distortion caused by the (usually) heavier weight on the rear tire. This is commonly known as the difference between theory and reality. Or are you doing wheelies and just not telling us?
The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference.
Ronsonic is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 02:00 PM
  #11  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times in 469 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Several reasons, which should be apparent.
I agree with this 99%.


-Tim-
TimothyH is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 03:32 PM
  #12  
rgconner
Senior Member
 
rgconner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,156

Bikes: Curtis Inglis Road, 80's Sekai touring fixie

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
You know, this nightmare is usually associated with a math test in high school.
rgconner is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 03:33 PM
  #13  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Originally Posted by DanBraden
I'm too exhausted by losing sleep over why those pesky valve stem nuts loosen when I ride!
Try tightening them against the little black plastic valve caps.
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 03:37 PM
  #14  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa
Because of the teeny tiny difference in the circumference of each tire due to the distortion caused by the (usually) heavier weight on the rear tire. This is commonly known as the difference between theory and reality.
It's a real difference.

Perhaps it could be used to adjust the pressure ratio of the front to back tire, i.e., adjust the ratio until the valve stems are still in phase at the end of a one mile ride with no turns. The ideal ratio would then be one that empirically leads to the least amount of valve-stem dephasing.
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 03:42 PM
  #15  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
Originally Posted by prathmann
In addition to the reasons already given, your front tire travels a slightly longer distance whenever you make a turn since the rear wheel cuts the corner a bit more sharply.
This. Add in a little bit of hysteresis, and swirl that in with the fact that the rims are fitted with pneumatic tires, which are actually slightly changing circumference under different loads.

Based on an imaginary pair of 700x25 tires, if the different inflation pressure between front and rear tire amounts to just 1mm difference in rollout, the "smaller" tire will have to complete an extra full revolution every 2 miles or so.

Oh, and tire wear, of course. Which adds to the above.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 04:13 PM
  #16  
Cyclist0108
Occam's Rotor
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times in 1,164 Posts
@DrIsotope

Is it too smokey to ride there today, too?
Cyclist0108 is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 04:33 PM
  #17  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
AQI 169. It’s pretty mucky. Got in ~20 this morning, it didn’t feel too bad. Last Wednesday was BAD, I probably should have sat out. My chest felt heavy for the entire day after the ride.
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 04:45 PM
  #18  
raceboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: By theBeach and Palos Verdes, CA adjacent
Posts: 554

Bikes: One of each: Road, Hybrid, Trekking

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 53 Posts
Wheelspin! I’ve got mad torque in my mighty legs.
raceboy is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 04:50 PM
  #19  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times in 707 Posts
Doppler effect.
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 05:00 PM
  #20  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,538

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3394 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by wgscott
If I start a ride with both valve stems at 6:00, and both wheels and tires have the same diameter, why is it when I finish the ride, the valve stems are no longer in phase? (For example, one might be at 3:00 and the other at 11:00.)
I'll bet all of your shirts are hung p in your closet at exact distances from one another, all of your kitchen supplies are neatly lined up and organized, etc etc.
spinnaker is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 05:11 PM
  #21  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times in 469 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet
Doppler effect.
And relativity.
TimothyH is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 05:40 PM
  #22  
Doctor Morbius
Interocitor Command
 
Doctor Morbius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The adult video section
Posts: 3,375

Bikes: 3 Road Bikes, 2 Hybrids

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by prathmann
In addition to the reasons already given, your front tire travels a slightly longer distance whenever you make a turn since the rear wheel cuts the corner a bit more sharply.
Yep.
Doctor Morbius is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 05:45 PM
  #23  
Doctor Morbius
Interocitor Command
 
Doctor Morbius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The adult video section
Posts: 3,375

Bikes: 3 Road Bikes, 2 Hybrids

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked 64 Times in 40 Posts
What keeps me up at night lately is thinking about 4th dimensional cubes. This is a 2D representation of what we might see in our 3D world. In the 4th dimension, however, all of the angles would be 90 degree right angles. There would be no distortions.

Doctor Morbius is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 06:34 PM
  #24  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times in 569 Posts
Since the total sum of knowledge is expanding rapidly,

the percentage that one person can know is shrinking.

We are all becoming more ignorant by the minute.
woodcraft is offline  
Old 08-19-18, 06:48 PM
  #25  
Oldguyonoldbike
Senior Member
 
Oldguyonoldbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 837

Bikes: Casati Laser, Colnago Tecnos, Ciöcc Exige, Black Mountain Cycles Road

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 78 Posts
Do you really align the valve stems before you ride?
Oldguyonoldbike is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.