calamarichris

Anyone know of a source of the following part numbers in this Shimano schematic?

Y-3D1 98040 - Left hand locknut (M14) & cone (M14) w/dustcap
Y-3D1 98080 -
Y-25R 98080 -

I've got replacement bearings on order, but want to know where to order the cup & cones.

200miler

Have your LBS order them from the QBP catalog. I've done so several times. Wheels Mfg. has a slew of them listed. Don't recall anything on pricing as it was a fair time back that I last got some, but they were reasonable at the time, IIRC.
YMMV
-dg

davidad

Your LBS may be the best place to find them. They can order from shimano.
I doubt that Wheels will make any parts for those hubs. Shimano doesn't make them anymore. They were a poor design.

calamarichris

Thanks 200 and Dad, very much!
But why are they considered a poor design? I also have a pair of 7900 C24 wheels, and everyone was raving about what a great design those are. Would you recommend instead finding a replacement 7900 hub instead?

These 7850's have been terrific for the last 3 years, but I suspect it was the recent Hell's Gate Hundred in Death Valley (with 50+mph sustained winds and gusts much higher) that finally got a little grit past the seal when I got blown off the road.
Thanks again! I'll check at my LBS.

200miler

calamarichris, have your LBS look at page 625 of their latest QBP catalog. It has the entire listing of Shimano cones made by Wheels Mfg. [sorry davidad, Wheels has been making small parts like these for a decade at the least!] Loose bearing hubs are significantly more reliable than cartridge hubs, BUT, they do require a bit of regular maintenance; cleaning and re-greasing the bearings and checking the cones for scoring. I give all mine a "quick check" at least once a year; hold the wheel by the axle/nut and tilt it slightly to "load" the bearings, give it a spin. It should be as smooth as a babe's, oops, BABY'S butt. If it needs some attention it will fell gritty. Over the years I've only ever had to rebuild one hub, free hub actually, that got packed with dirt/mud while riding a Solvang double in the early aughts - rained ALL bloody day! BTW, this was the start of my "quick check" program!

As I live next door to DV, I'm curious as to what made you decide that new bearings and cones were needed for your wheel based on one ride. I ride there 3-4 days a week on average [not within the last several days though - it's been a buck-fifteen to a buck-nineteen at FC!], and haven't experienced any hub issues. I'd like to suggest that you take the offending hub[s] apart and clean out the races and the balls, repack them, check the cones for any scoring, and put them back together. I think that this might just solve your problem, even though you didn't really state what it was. Shimano loose bearing hubs are as solid as a rock [Gibraltar?] and will last a lifetime with a little attention. A little maintenance effort might just save you a buck or three!
YMMV
-dg

Kimmo

How so?

tgr

What is QBP catalog ?

calamarichris

It wasn't one ride; it was the side-by-side roll test against my 7900 C24's. But I suspect it was this year's Hell's Gate that introduced the grit past the seals.
Also, I did take the hubs apart and look at them with a 30x magnifier from Radio Shack. My existing balls were scratched pretty badly compared to some standard Grade-25's I bought to replace them. One of them even looked like someone had taken a tiny hacksaw and cut a notch out of it.


The replacement Grade 25 balls I bought from my local LBS were better, but when I spin-tested the hubs after the rebuild (with the special Dura Ace grease), they were still not as good as the 7900 hubs.
So I ordered some Grade 3 ceramic balls from Bocabearings and wanted to replace the cups & cones too. The bearing races are constructed in such a manner that I cannot get a clear view of them with my Radio Shack scope.
I have 3 pair of Dura Ace wheels, so I'm willing to invest in the tools and learning curve. In fact, I just talked my gf into another pair of the 7900-C24's, so it's worth my while to become the resident Dura Ace hub guy.

Kimmo

The good oil around here on ceramic balls is they're a waste of money.

IIRC, it's something about their rate of expansion over the typical operating range more than negating their benefits or some such.

If you post a thread asking about em, you'll hear from the folks in the know.

calamarichris

Thanks. I've heard similar reportage herein too, but everyone on BF also told me that aero wheels were a waste of money, and they were dead-wrong on that one too.
Also, I've got ceramic BBs in my bottom bracket, and that absolutely makes a difference-- spin like a singed monkey. Not really asking about the bearings, just on finding the cups & cones.

Dave Mayer

Correct: ceramic bearings are an absurd waste of money. And so is specialty bike grease. The only advantage I can think of ceramics is they resist wear somewhat better than steel when they are immersed for long periods in dirt and water. If you service your gear on a somewhat regular basis, and then install it correctly, then this is not an issue.

I know this has been beat to death, but what would ceramic balls save you in actual riding conditions? 0.01 Watts? Or were steel balls lower resistance? I guess if you are a vendor of this overpriced hokum, you'll know the results before you do the test.

Want to get faster?... ride more.

BTW: Dura-Ace 7800/01 were the poorly designed hubs. Shimano learned their lesson and went back to the superior titanium freehub design in later wheelsets.

calamarichris

So the 7800/01 were poorly designed, but the 7850 are okay? Because those are what I have (both the C24s and C50s).
Ugh--wish I'd never mentioned the balls now. Not interested in opinions or guidance on that. Only want to know how to order the cups & cones.

Kimmo

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have.

Never ridden a set, but I read a lot of reviews when they first came along fifteen years or so ago, and the consensus was that they were worth the extra weight on the flats, if crosswinds wreen't too bad.

Now you can get some pretty lightweight aero wheels that are better in crosswinds, and IMO it's a no-brainer if you have the cash to bash.

It totally stands to reason; wheels are a major element in the performance equation, probably only second to your position on the bike.

Bearings would be somewhere around 2,078th...

calamarichris

Okay, thanks everyone! I've decided that I'm going with steel bearings instead!
Now that that's resolved, does anyone know how or where to order the cups & cones for the Dura Ace 7850 hubs?

These are the 7850 hubs, not the 7800 or 7801. Thanks!

Kimmo

PMSL


...Hey wow, the cups are replaceable on those? Sweet.

davidad

The rt. side bearings are inboard like a freewheel hub. The reason for the freehub was to put the bearings outboard and remove the extra stress on the axle. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/free-k7.html

Kimmo

At first I thought that's the hub you meant, but that's not the hub pictured here... look at #6.

davidad

Quite a bit of difference between something aero and something that is supposed to solve a friction problem that doesn't exist.

davidad

The 7850 hub is whathe meant and is the newer design to replace the shimano screw-up. When they make a mistake they remove the item from their catalog and replace it with a better one.
Wheels doesn't make cones for that hub yet.

Kimmo

I'm sure the extra-smooth-spinning cranks help... about as much as waxing your moustache.

calamarichris

Thanks very much for the helpful advice! I'll remove & smash them immediately and replace them with proper steel bearings.

Back to the point, does anyone know where the bearing cones can be found?

And thanks Davidad--relieved to hear I didn't get the poorly designed hubs.

Kimmo

Tried to get in touch with a Shimano rep?

calamarichris

I apologize. I'm not a professional mechanic... just a DIY guy who builds & maintains my own bikes & motorcycles. I don't really have access to a Shimano Rep--unless you know of one?
I assumed they don't sell direct, because they don't want to undercut LBS's.
I printed the schematic and am going to check with my LBS this evening after work.

200miler

*My mistake, I didn't look for a specific model number in the Wheels listing. BUT, as long as he's got a sku number from the diagram, his LBS can order up the proper bits direct from Shimano's tech support operation.
YMMV
-dg

calamarichris

What is this "wheels" listing or company that you guys keep mentioning?

e.g. "Wheels doesn't make cones for that yet."