15 minute cities
#101
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unfortunately this is absolutely not true in many (if not most) jurisdictions in the united states. single use zoning or zoning where uses other than a primary use are conditional is extremely common.
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#102
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City planning in the U.S. had previously favored low density over high, and tried to separate uses, and was intensely automobile oriented. By the 90's this was widely recognized as a failure; a few prophetic voices were railing against it already in the 60's. New thinking includes ideas like higher density around transport nodes with green spaces in between, and putting residential uses into downtowns so that they don't die at night; trying to make cities more walkable; more emphasis on public transport; accommodation of bikes. Reducing sprawl by increasing density around transport nodes.
I can't say that every U.S. city has city planning which works like that, but it's certainly what the thinking has been in the profession. U.S. cities I know have gotten much better in the last 30 years even if they are still a long ways from European cities.
#103
Junior Member
I'm right now building an ADU on a site in one U.S. city which was formerly single family only.
Most European cities don't have zoning AT ALL. They use a different system based on a master plan. It takes more resources to administer but in my opinion it's a superior approach. Anyone can apply to change the use of a land plot from one thing to another, and the authorities will let you if they think it enhances the urban fabric.
#104
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The bottom line is you would have to completely redesign many cities to accomplish what many of you continuously dribble about in this silly forum.
It's laughable. Especially the tax dollars that would have to go towards implementing it. Not gonna happen in the US. Not in large cities. Especially smaller in size but still have larger populations. Older eastern cities immediately come to mind.
People don't feel safe, and they have the money you can forget it! Cycle for leisure, drive everywhere else.
It's laughable. Especially the tax dollars that would have to go towards implementing it. Not gonna happen in the US. Not in large cities. Especially smaller in size but still have larger populations. Older eastern cities immediately come to mind.
People don't feel safe, and they have the money you can forget it! Cycle for leisure, drive everywhere else.
But you don't need to completely redesign a city to make it more walkable/bikeable. I know cities that are unrecognizably better than they were 30 years ago; Atlanta GA, Austin TX just to name two.
And don't forget we ARE going to get a significant redesign of cities soon to accommodate self-driving cars. The idea is to ban the use of human driven cars in urban parts of cities, which allows drastic reduction in the amount of road area needed (and almost completely eliminates parking), freeing up vast amounts of space for pedestrians, bikes, and green spaces. This will be really cool. I regret I will probably not live to see it fully implemented, but future cities are going to be fantastic.
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#105
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Zoning reform is an ongoing process, but it's well underway. See: https://planning.org/planning/2023/w...do-we-need-it/
I'm right now building an ADU on a site in one U.S. city which was formerly single family only.
Most European cities don't have zoning AT ALL. They use a different system based on a master plan. It takes more resources to administer but in my opinion it's a superior approach. Anyone can apply to change the use of a land plot from one thing to another, and the authorities will let you if they think it enhances the urban fabric.
I'm right now building an ADU on a site in one U.S. city which was formerly single family only.
Most European cities don't have zoning AT ALL. They use a different system based on a master plan. It takes more resources to administer but in my opinion it's a superior approach. Anyone can apply to change the use of a land plot from one thing to another, and the authorities will let you if they think it enhances the urban fabric.
by way of explanation of my somewhat blanket statement, i’m a licensed architect in multiple states, a principal of a global A/E firm, and have designed many millions of square feet of stuff in many jurisdictions. outside a rising number of urban cores and other areas of existing density, zoning is still an incredible impediment to walkable, bikable urbanism in the us.
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#106
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I know that Los Angeles is a favorite piñata for people in terms of development and mobility (especially for those of us to the right of it ), but note that the metro area is the second-most dense in the entire US in terms of residents per square mile, and that some neighborhoods are as or more dense than almost any other US city, including many NYC neighborhoods.
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#107
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I know that Los Angeles is a favorite piñata for people in terms of development and mobility (especially for those of us to the right of it ), but note that the metro area is the second-most dense in the entire US in terms of residents per square mile, and that some neighborhoods are as or more dense than almost any other US city, including many NYC neighborhoods.
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#108
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Nobody will make you live in a city, much less a 15 minute one.
However, 15 minute rural towns used to be more of a thing. The hardware store, pharmacy, bank, Sears outlet, and soda fountain were all side by side on Main Street. You could be like the 5 year old kid in the Springsteen song allowed to go to the corner on his own to get his Dad a newspaper. Now they're all gone and everybody drives to the Walmart a couple of towns over.
Fewer cars on the road would make things a lot easier for truck drivers.
However, 15 minute rural towns used to be more of a thing. The hardware store, pharmacy, bank, Sears outlet, and soda fountain were all side by side on Main Street. You could be like the 5 year old kid in the Springsteen song allowed to go to the corner on his own to get his Dad a newspaper. Now they're all gone and everybody drives to the Walmart a couple of towns over.
Fewer cars on the road would make things a lot easier for truck drivers.
#110
Junior Member
Interesting, one guy talking about suburbs another about rural living but neither knows what the other means....lots of conspiracy theory theorists even though the link says pretty much nothing.... and the big thing no one noticed there's no such thing as a 15 minute city because the guy is talking about distance not time.
#111
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I live in a "15 minute city" AKA "small town". In the past week, I've:
This afternoon, I'm walking to the train station to go visit my partner in Queens, NYC. Within a 15 minute walk is great pizza, ramen, Greek food, bagels, etc... And she's three stops from Central Park, five stops from Carnegie Hall, seven stops from Times Square.
When I bought this place, I told the realtor that I wanted to live in a town with sidewalks. I'm glad that I did. I like this way of living.
- Ridden to a zoning board meeting (I'm on the board and there are often interesting discussions about development and planning and such)
- Ridden to the supermarket
- Ridden to a cafe
- Ridden to breakfast
- Walked to the pharmacy
- Ridden to the mountain bike trail
This afternoon, I'm walking to the train station to go visit my partner in Queens, NYC. Within a 15 minute walk is great pizza, ramen, Greek food, bagels, etc... And she's three stops from Central Park, five stops from Carnegie Hall, seven stops from Times Square.
When I bought this place, I told the realtor that I wanted to live in a town with sidewalks. I'm glad that I did. I like this way of living.
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#112
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#113
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#115
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I live between small towns.
Not many services unless you go to the small towns.
I am between two cities that have hospitals, and as I recently had cause to make regular trip every day for a couple of months, I had to use my car.
There is a great smaller hospital near but shuts at 21.00hrs and does not have the equipment I required.
I love to cycle, but the rural roads are as dangerous as urban roads with people cutting blind corners.
I rarely see young children on their bikes on the main road on their own, as I used to do, to much traffic.
I love the idea of a 15min city, fully support it. I try to use the car as little as I can.
My car recently died, and getting to an appointment without it,and back again after surgery proved unrealistic. I had to use a work colleague, because even after surgery (neck dissection) I was deemed not to meet the criteria for hospital assisted transport and they would have left me to use a combination of buses and trains. I am in the process of buying a car as I write this, because I need one where I live, but wish the world was different.
Here is a “googly” or “curve ball” to our friends over the pond! Make the roads one way, and the other lane cycle. You can still use your car but it will take much more time for a round trip when you can go both directions on a cycle. No more land taken for tarmac.
This might encourage local business to set up, all that passing cycling trade going past as it would be less hassle than driving a round trip out of your way, unless you absolutely had to use a car. Until we see the light and introduce monorails and whatever it could be an evolutionary transport step, if you want to go revolutionary on the climate issue I’m with you, but I can’t do it without everyone else!
The world has a love affair with the car for many reasons, and the infrastructure is not there to replace it yet, this would be a quick first step. Why should the car have the right to the amount of space it has?
Not many services unless you go to the small towns.
I am between two cities that have hospitals, and as I recently had cause to make regular trip every day for a couple of months, I had to use my car.
There is a great smaller hospital near but shuts at 21.00hrs and does not have the equipment I required.
I love to cycle, but the rural roads are as dangerous as urban roads with people cutting blind corners.
I rarely see young children on their bikes on the main road on their own, as I used to do, to much traffic.
I love the idea of a 15min city, fully support it. I try to use the car as little as I can.
My car recently died, and getting to an appointment without it,and back again after surgery proved unrealistic. I had to use a work colleague, because even after surgery (neck dissection) I was deemed not to meet the criteria for hospital assisted transport and they would have left me to use a combination of buses and trains. I am in the process of buying a car as I write this, because I need one where I live, but wish the world was different.
Here is a “googly” or “curve ball” to our friends over the pond! Make the roads one way, and the other lane cycle. You can still use your car but it will take much more time for a round trip when you can go both directions on a cycle. No more land taken for tarmac.
This might encourage local business to set up, all that passing cycling trade going past as it would be less hassle than driving a round trip out of your way, unless you absolutely had to use a car. Until we see the light and introduce monorails and whatever it could be an evolutionary transport step, if you want to go revolutionary on the climate issue I’m with you, but I can’t do it without everyone else!
The world has a love affair with the car for many reasons, and the infrastructure is not there to replace it yet, this would be a quick first step. Why should the car have the right to the amount of space it has?
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#116
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I live in a 15 min city since 43 years, postal office, pharmacy and groceries are at least 10min with bike and 15min -20min by foot. I am 25min from the RER station and 1 hour far from Paris. The river is 5 min far from my appartment and I have nice trails where to ride. Sold my dad's car because it was getting too old,gasoline, maintenance and insurance are costly by these days and with cars older than 20 years old because in my country you need to have a specific prefectoral authorization from the department's general council from your place of residence.
Last edited by georges1; 03-17-24 at 02:34 AM.
#117
Junior Member
There is no plan to restrict people's freedom of movement (that's a right wing conspiracy theory), but making it less convenient or more expensive to drive inside a city is a good idea. It's actually the pro-car faction who have been the ones forcing their ideas onto cities for 80 years, evicting people from their private homes to build public freeways and parking lots where there used to be vibrant sidewalk life, spewing exhaust and shedding particulates and creating a lot of carnage. I own a car too, and while we may think we're paying a lot in taxes and fees, we aren't actually paying our way- road and traffic costs are huge and underrecognized, and to some extent paid by everybody. So giving the city back to all the people, rather than favoring driving, is the right thing to do.
And it's not going to somehow be imposed abruptly and willy-nilly on sprawling suburban areas where you currently can't function without a car. It will happen gradually over maybe a generation or two of better planning and incentives.
And it's not going to somehow be imposed abruptly and willy-nilly on sprawling suburban areas where you currently can't function without a car. It will happen gradually over maybe a generation or two of better planning and incentives.
Making it "less convenient or more expensive" to access cities by car seems manipulative and oppressive to car drivers. Cities have gotten furious blowback for some of these initiatives.
Yet -- you do somehow have to get cars out of city centers to make this work.
At least human driven cars. I think self-driving cars or rather cheap self-driving taxis will make it possible to reach a consensus.
#118
Junior Member
I know that Los Angeles is a favorite piñata for people in terms of development and mobility (especially for those of us to the right of it ), but note that the metro area is the second-most dense in the entire US in terms of residents per square mile, and that some neighborhoods are as or more dense than almost any other US city, including many NYC neighborhoods.
The average density across a large metro area is not meaningful. What is meaningful is the density across more granular areas; also, the way uses are mixed. Very well measured with the 15 minute city concept.
A well designed city has all the different elements of urban life arranged around transport nodes so you can access those elements of urban life in 15 minute walks or short bike rides, and use transport for the odd longer trip.
L.A. is not that, and probably can't be fixed. L.A. was designed in an era when it was considered desirable to separate uses as much as possible, and when having a little scrap of your own grass was considered the supreme value in housing. A lot of American cities were designed like that but some of them, at least, have urban cores designed before cars, which can be much more easily adapted to modern ideas about how cities should work.
#119
Prefers Cicero
A better way to understand it is: "let's stop spending so much money, and wrecking some of the best features of our cities, in order to make it so cheap and convenient for car drivers to buzz around, at the expense of others." Does that make is seem less oppressive and manipulative?
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