oespinoza83

Knocking on wood, but I have been riding my Stages PM since July and have no had a single problem with it. I know only 6 months of riding isn't a lot, but I have not had any of the issues (battery specifically) that others have posted on forums across the net. Never had an issue in wet or cold (~32F) weather either.

Racer Ex 

You're in Houston. Wet maybe. Cold, not so much

Glad it's working for you.

oespinoza83

Yes, I am only talking about 5-6 days of temps below 50F. This doesn't include riding the trainer indoors, but the house is not that cold. Have you heard of cold weather causing issues?

globecanvas

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm on my second Stages. The first one cracked (the meter/pod part, not the crankarm). They overnighted a replacement. It was on my cross bike which I abuse the crap out of, it probably cracked on a rock. I have continued to abuse the second Stages (cross rides, cross races, water/sand/salt/slush/snow/zero degrees etc) for a few months, no troubles yet. The crack probably counts as a design flaw, though, the plastic surrounding the battery cover is not very substantial. But if you don't do technical singletrack it's probably fine.

I think they are an iteration or two away from being a great unit, but even so, considering the cost and the customer service, I am a satisfied customer and would buy another one.

Just relating my experiences, not recommending or unrecommending anything to anyone.

tetonrider

Agree. I clicked on the link above, and SRM make it clear there, as they always have, that complete sealing was a design choice. Over the years they have increased battery life without compromising the sealing (up to 3,000 hours--a conservative 3 years for most people).

Quote:

SRM Training System ‏@SRMtraining46m

All else equal, I prefer infinite battery life and complete serviceability, but not all else is equal.

This is my own bias, but I am not clamoring for a rechargeable battery as IME battery and communications covers are a common failure point in electronic devices exposed to the elements. I've dealt with hand-held Garmin products since the late 1990s and often the cover is the source of water ingress into the device. On the flip side, I would hope that charging PM would be less frequent than, say, downloading data from a handheld device, so there should be less wear and tear on a cover.

Seals that are opened and closed tend to degrade over time, no matter the application. Beyond data accuracy on one ride, SRMs tend to be known for longevity (10 years is not unusual) a bit more than some competitors. Adding a seal would seem to be at the cost of longevity.

I am hopeful that they will figure out a way to add this capability without losing the seal. Could enable the meter to be lighter by reducing the cell size. SRMs are currently lighter than Quarq spiders. I don't know what, if any, of that might be related to the battery implementation.

Each company has made a different choice. Neither one is right, they're just hitting different targets.

I sell some power meters (4 brands), and I actually make more money (in absolute $ per sale) of a Quarq or Garmin vs an SRM. I am in a lucky position because I don't feed my family this way; as a result I can choose what I want to sell and to whom -- money is not the driving factor. When someone approaches me to buy a device, I try to listen to their needs, share my experiences across multiple brands and numerous devices, and get them to THEIR sweet-spot.

But you raise a good point -- there are some myths and/or confusion regarding pricing of some options.


[quote=Racer Ex]
Doing some reading on the Stages and P2M. And Vector (good feedback at the bottom of the comments on this one). Talking to folks and doing the reading Vector, even if it's solid, could have major issues going from bike to bike. Got one out set there I'm keeping my eye on.
[quote]

I've recently gotten some direct experience with the Vector. I followed this project for years (since before Garmin bought Metrigear) and was SO curious to see it in action. There are many positives to it. One feature that people find compelling is ease of swapping pedals vs swapping cranks. Cranks scare many home mechanics (IMO, this is unwarranted), and pedals seem easy. Pedal swap with the Vector is non-trivial, which is something one typically doesn't realize until after they've done it.

I have a friend who absolutely must have power on a particular stationary bike at home -- Vector is the right product for him partly because it is the only product that meets his need. He is unwilling to ride a trainer or swap to a different stationary bike, nor can he change cranks.

Most users have more options available to them, but the Vector still might be right. After my hands-on use, I think that ease of swapping would not be a reason that I recommend the Vector to someone.

Since the day I got my first power meter, I have hoped for a day where we would see prices plummet without sacrificing accuracy.

Money limited my choice of a first meter, though I ultimately spent more money in the long-run. I'm a lemons-out-of-lemonade guy so I look for the positive; it gave me a good education that I otherwise might not have gotten, though it caused lots of frustration in the process.

Over the years I have been intrigued by every new player. Each one has stepped up with a claim of dramatically reducing prices while still matching the gold standard. Some here might recall the time when Quarq was just an idea. They published periodic updates on their progress for 18-24 months before coming out with their first model. Initially they wanted to hit a sub-$1k retail price point (and mind you they were going to only sell direct at this point). When they got deeper they realized that this was unreasonable without sacrificing reliability and accuracy. Upon release the price was nearly 2x that.

So, too, with the Metrigear promise.

Manufacturing a reliable meter that seeks to measure (vs calculate) power is non-trivial, though from the outside perspective it seems like it should be a very easy/cheap project given that no specific part costs very much at all. One must ask why is it that all these companies come up against a similar roadblock once they are deep into it?

Stages has a great price-point, albeit with a few trade-offs; thus far they are a hybrid of measuring and calculating.

Rotor, Pioneer, the new Aussie PM, Power2Max, hell even iBike and the "power meters" on the Schwinn spin bikes at my wife's gym….all interesting players searching for their sweet-spot on the price-accuracy curve. So far no one has done a quantum leap and created a new standard for accuracy and reliability while totally shifting the price curve downward. I would like to see it.

tetonrider

Thanks for sharing. I like hearing these experiences, particularly from someone who has ridden more than a few companies' offerings.

I have a number of friends who are primarily MTBers who have seen the light with training with power…on the road and indoors. They have been interested in adding power to their MTB but options have been more limited than for road bikes. The MTB (and cross) environments are certainly more abusive.

All of those riders have been intrigued by the Stages device -- it has seemed like a great drop-in device for this purpose, and I recall seeing them market it this way. BB standards are even more divergent for MTBs. To hear that the electronics are more exposed and/or the design is more fragile is good to file away. Crashes and rock strikes are inevitable. Another factor on the MTB is that for many frames there is minimal clearance between crank arms and chain stays. The location of the Stages electronics encroaches into this space, and when we're talking 1, 2, 3mm clearance this can be important.

I know of only one MTB unit I can currently recommend with confidence, but I am always in search of more options to present to friends and customers.

Edit to add:
For MTB and cross, due to the more abusive nature of the riding and exposure to elements, I believe the availability of end-user calibration is more important than for pure road riding. Meters in this environment tend to be pushed to their limits and can have more things go wrong. Not saying everyone needs to DO the calibration, but having the option (so they can do it, or a friend, or a dealer) is valuable.

zigmeister

No, the point of the power meter being faulty over about 1yr period was that my cardio/fitness and performance was undoubtedly improving. I would ride more near the front, take more pulls, sprint at the sprint points etc...I'm a terrible climber, but if I trailed off the back, I would slowly able to hang on, catch back up and get into the group again over time. I was no longer getting completely dropped and see you guys later!!

At the same time, the power output continually showed lower and lower when I was riding, and the downloaded files to my WKO+ software would show lower normalized for sections/same ride.

Does that mess with your mind? Absolutely.

Did I keep getting better? Yes, and I knew that, and was kind of discarding the PM numbers for 6 months anyway. Which, what is the point of the PM then? Nothing, useless. Just keep tabs on the heart rate, normal training rides how you perform and improve/get worse, and use that it what I was doing anyway.

So yes, just go race/train is one thing, but your thinking during training, which for most of us is 90% of our time, not racing, is important. During this time, my body weight has remained within about 4-5lbs. Seeing improvement in power performance, when the gains are in small percentages 1,2,3% over a year, makes a difference.

It was a mind f&^k to say the least. Then the PM really started acting weird, just eating batteries between rides. I would ride it a few times, battery shot 2 weeks later.

So Quarq replaced it no questions really asked after I tried a few things, they paid shipping both ways, 3-day Fedex, turned it around within the week. Can't say enough about Quarq and their customer service and support for the product.

Literally, the first few pedals and short spin I took with the repaired/new PM, I noticed it was at least 15-20w higher at the same output/feel/speed. And I was like, yeah, that's what I thought.

shovelhd

They picked a bad crank to base it off of, that is unless FSA finally got their act together. (Caveat: I own a FSA crank).

shovelhd

zig, your experience was exactly like my last experience. I could have written it myself.

echappist

well, only partially unwarranted. My new frameset use press fit BB, and i'm using Shimano Press fit for my Rotor SRM. Theoretically should work out just fine as both Shimano and Rotor are 24mm spindles. Realistically somehow the Rotor spindle is just a bit thicker. As a result, when i pulled out the crank, one bearing actually came off of the frame and got stuck toward the way end of my crank spindle .

tetonrider

i've only installed a few rotor cranks (30mm spindles); they had spacer issues and worked best with the rotor BB. i'm not surprised to hear that your rotor crank does not drop-in to a shimano BB without some adjustment. sram gxp and shimano cranks are both 24mm but don't play with each others' BBs, at least not w/o some modification IME.

shovelhd

GXP is 24/22

gsteinb

who knows what about ant+ interference?

shovelhd

I know enough. What is going on?

gsteinb

I'm having some issues with number drops. The issue seems to be intermittent. The confusing thing is HR is dropping also. I lose HR, then power, then speed. Sometimes 1, sometimes all three. Magnets seem to be positioned correctly.

I've replicated the issue one two bikes, so SRM sent me a replacement PC7 yesterday and I got some drops today on my ride.

I can't say for certain if it occurs any place other than my basement, so I'm thinking I'm getting some kind of occasional interference.

shovelhd

The first thing I would do is make sure that any cordless (not cellular) phones and wireless routers/access points are more than 10 feet away from the bike. Unfortunately, ANT+ shares the same 2.4GHz wireless spectrum as a lot of these types of devices. Both phones and wifi devices are "high power" devices that are capable of creating interference with ANT+ devices.

If this never happens outdoors when riding alone, then it has to be the equipment.

gsteinb

any chance my neighbor being on the phone could be the cause?

shovelhd

Is he in your basement? Potentially. Can you move your rollers around to a different area of the basement and try again?

gsteinb

my router is more than ten feet. my computer is right next to the rollers. neighbor's house is close, but not 10 feet of less. more like 20 or so. when it reoccurs I'll move the rollers as far away as I can and see if it goes away.

Ygduf

man, that reminds me in 1993 when I was a teenager and cordless phones were all the rage I used to be able to listen to my neighbor down-the-streets calls. I'm talking like 4 houses down, at least 100 yards away.

echappist

my issues were more signal drop out related than interference related. Outside, i rarely get a dropout, and i suspect it may have something to do with particular circumstances during which i'm passing under transmission wires or the subway tracks (above ground at this point). Indoors i get quite a bit of drop out, and things improve when i turn off my router and wi-fi access on my laptop, but even then, i still get a drop out here or there...

gsteinb

inneresting

jsutkeepspining

I had an issue where my powermeter just wouldn't read power after a certain point (2 hours into a ride). Turns out the thing had been beat to hell and back. I got a brand new srm free of charge, and i think they even paid for my shipping. Nice customer service, but i don't expect to need anything from them for a long time.

Wesley36

So for the last half week, it seems to take me about 45 minutes to warm up on the rollers. Before that, I don't necessarily feel bad, but my HR is too high and my watts are too low. Around 45 minutes it turns around, and by the end of the session I am putting out some pretty good power (for me), and my HR is staying Z2.

Today I did a 2 hour roller session. First 45 minutes were not bad, but after that, my power kept creeping up in relation to my HR. I would be spinning along at a given wattage, my HR would start dropping so I would pick the power up, HR stabilizes, ride at new higher power, HR starts to drop, pick up the power, etc. The last 50 minutes my power was 20 watts above Z2, but my HR stayed solidly Z2. This is all very surprising, given that I was out of commission with a rather severe ear infection from Dec. 6 - 13, but I will take it. Negative cardiac drift!

Ygduf