I Threw Away My Bike For A Brompton And Loved It! So Why Am I Ditching That Bike Now?
08-30-18, 07:01 PM
#51
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https://www.brompton.com/the-bike/superlight
What makes it Superlight?
On a Superlight, we replace the standard components for lighter options for the following parts:
Titanium Front Fork
Titanium Rear Frame
Lightweight Wheel Set <------**
Titanium Mudguard Stays
Lightweight Headset
What makes it Superlight?
On a Superlight, we replace the standard components for lighter options for the following parts:
Titanium Front Fork
Titanium Rear Frame
Lightweight Wheel Set <------**
Titanium Mudguard Stays
Lightweight Headset
08-30-18, 07:47 PM
#52
Senior Member
"lightweight wheel set"
** This is where I got my idea that it is a single wall rim. Perhaps I am wrong in assuming that. By that I mean the Superlight designation is only for the 2-speed and not for the 6-speed titanium. The 2-speed Superlight also uses double wall rims.
Standard front wheel vs. xtra light front wheel (the pic shows the old version of the x-light wheel, using the old pre-2013 rim).
08-30-18, 07:52 PM
#53
On yer bike
08-30-18, 08:13 PM
#54
On yer bike
Yes, it means "crane". The following quote found here: https://www.jccc.on.ca/origami-crane...gami_crane.pdf
In Japan, the crane is a mystical creature and is believed to live for a thousand years. As a result, in the Japanese, Chinese and Korean cultures, the crane represents good fortune and longevity. The Japanese refer to the crane as the "bird of happiness”.
In Japan, the crane is a mystical creature and is believed to live for a thousand years. As a result, in the Japanese, Chinese and Korean cultures, the crane represents good fortune and longevity. The Japanese refer to the crane as the "bird of happiness”.
08-30-18, 09:23 PM
#56
Senior Member
I am going to nit-pick here, and say that you have it backwards. The cultural flow was from China to Korea and Japan. That is, the symbolism of the crane is originally from Chinese mythology from which it flowed to Korea and Japan.
08-31-18, 02:31 AM
#57
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Has anyone read the manual that comes with the Brompton? It states exactly what the bike is designed for, and what it isn't. From that, you could certainly argue that Tsuru was correct in thinking he was using the bike outside the design specs.
08-31-18, 02:50 AM
#58
Senior Member
Well, one need not buy the bike or read the manual. One could have just looked at it - 349 wheels, rim brakes, no non-proprietary, wide gear range dereilleur drivetrain. It's amazing what you can see when you actually look at something. As I said before, if a disk-brake, wide gear-range standard dereilleur drivetrain 451er is what he needs, it begs the question of why he bought a Brompton in the first place.
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 08-31-18 at 02:53 AM.
08-31-18, 04:14 AM
#59
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The basic issue regarding rims is not framed correctly. The amount of energy generated in braking is a function of momentum, mass x velocity. For a given mass and velocity, the energy to be dissipated in braking is the same regardless of the wheel size. In smaller wheels, however, the energy dissipated and the mevhanical abrasion is spread out over a smaller surface. That's the rub.
The author does himself no favors when he declares plainly that small wheels generate twice as much heat. That was a point in reading the article that immediately gave me pause. That point is conceptually flawed. He didn't want to do the math; now we know why. Again, the energy to be dissipated in braking is dependant on the mass and velocity. Once we understand this, a question that naturally emerges, germane to the issue of rim durability, is - how much does the rider weigh? Tsuru, how much do you weigh?
* Mass/weight is fundamental to the earlier issue of tire pressure, and now to rim durability. Tourers understand this better than most because touring involves loading the bike, and this has implications for the choice of wheel and for braking. For example, a touring rim is not a touring rim because of its load capacity only, but also because of its beefier sidewalls. Hopefully Tsuru, unlike another, will be forthcoming with his weight so we can ground the discussion on quantitative indicators, rather than spurious suppositions, subjective perceptions and beliefs.
The author does himself no favors when he declares plainly that small wheels generate twice as much heat. That was a point in reading the article that immediately gave me pause. That point is conceptually flawed. He didn't want to do the math; now we know why. Again, the energy to be dissipated in braking is dependant on the mass and velocity. Once we understand this, a question that naturally emerges, germane to the issue of rim durability, is - how much does the rider weigh? Tsuru, how much do you weigh?
* Mass/weight is fundamental to the earlier issue of tire pressure, and now to rim durability. Tourers understand this better than most because touring involves loading the bike, and this has implications for the choice of wheel and for braking. For example, a touring rim is not a touring rim because of its load capacity only, but also because of its beefier sidewalls. Hopefully Tsuru, unlike another, will be forthcoming with his weight so we can ground the discussion on quantitative indicators, rather than spurious suppositions, subjective perceptions and beliefs.
The way I saw it, all things being equal (my weight being about 180-190lbs, my speed & riding style being what it is, caliper brakes, my environmental conditions), if all that stayed the same on all my bikes (Brompton, road, cyclocross), but the only difference was the wheel size and make, then the issue was really the heat & wear I was causing on the rim. All the other variables cancel each other out. Hope that helps!
08-31-18, 04:17 AM
#60
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Well, one need not buy the bike or read the manual. One could have just looked at it - 349 wheels, rim brakes, no non-proprietary, wide gear range dereilleur drivetrain. It's amazing what you can see when you actually look at something. As I said before, if a disk-brake, wide gear-range standard dereilleur drivetrain 451er is what he needs, it begs the question of why he bought a Brompton in the first place.
08-31-18, 04:17 AM
#61
Senior Member
Too early in the morning to read through the big words. lol. The way I saw it, all things being equal (my weight being about 180-190lbs, my speed & riding style being what it is, caliper brakes, my environmental conditions), if all that stayed the same on all my bikes (Brompton, road, cyclocross), but the only difference was the wheel size and make, then the issue was really the heat & wear I was causing on the rim. All the other variables cancel each other out. Hope that helps!
The way I saw it, all things being equal (my weight being about 180-190lbs, my speed & riding style being what it is, caliper brakes, my environmental conditions), if all that stayed the same on all my bikes (Brompton, road, cyclocross), but the only difference was the wheel size and make, then the issue was really the heat & wear I was causing on the rim. All the other variables cancel each other out. Hope that helps!
08-31-18, 04:22 AM
#62
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BIO
About Aaron Tsuru of @tsurufoto - aaron tsuru: normalizing reality through art
While you are here, I’d like to talk about this whole Tsuru-thing Megs & I have got going on… specifically, I’d like to answer the question we get asked all the time…. “what’s a ‘Tsuru’ anyway”? This is usually followed by “and how the hell do you pronounce it”? Well after many years of this, it’s about time we put this to rest, shall we? Hopefully, we shall…
Tsuru is Japanese for Crane. It’s basically pronounced like “sue” as in “I’m getting sued by the RIAA”, quickly followed by a “roo” as in “kangaroo”, the “T” is relatively silent. Or, as I like to say, it’s pronounced “sü to the rü… yo.”
So, why use a Japanese Crane as our namesake for all our artistic endeavours? Great question…. The crane has been an ever-present “theme” in my partner & I’s relationship, beginning with the story of the Crane Wife (an ancient Japanese morality tale of love, trust, loyalty, respect, and appreciating what you have or it will be gone… forever) that was captured ever so perfectly by The Decemberists in their 2006 LP by the same name, continuing when I proposed at a little indoor picnic before we headed out to a magical Decemberists concert (where we got commemorative t-shirts) and stays present in all our projects today (including my half-sleeve on my left arm).
Cranes are loyal, mating for life, they are represented in Greek, Roman, and Asian cultures as a bird of joy, of light, and youthful happiness, as well as symbolizing harmony & peace. One look at any of the family of sites, and you’ll see we strive to never take life too seriously, preferring personal happiness over popularity or wealth. And yeah, we intend to “mate for life”.
When my old music blog tsururadio first went online on January of 2007, I wanted something that represented my love of music and the love of my life, and when it finally popped in our collective heads, it was just too perfect. Since then, my incredibly talented partner, who I always referred to on message boards and on my site as “TsuruBride” started taking her amazing work online to show her friends and fans what’s going on, it only made sense to keep the TsuruBride moniker that she’d become known as to our friends & fans.
About Aaron Tsuru of @tsurufoto - aaron tsuru: normalizing reality through art
While you are here, I’d like to talk about this whole Tsuru-thing Megs & I have got going on… specifically, I’d like to answer the question we get asked all the time…. “what’s a ‘Tsuru’ anyway”? This is usually followed by “and how the hell do you pronounce it”? Well after many years of this, it’s about time we put this to rest, shall we? Hopefully, we shall…
Tsuru is Japanese for Crane. It’s basically pronounced like “sue” as in “I’m getting sued by the RIAA”, quickly followed by a “roo” as in “kangaroo”, the “T” is relatively silent. Or, as I like to say, it’s pronounced “sü to the rü… yo.”
So, why use a Japanese Crane as our namesake for all our artistic endeavours? Great question…. The crane has been an ever-present “theme” in my partner & I’s relationship, beginning with the story of the Crane Wife (an ancient Japanese morality tale of love, trust, loyalty, respect, and appreciating what you have or it will be gone… forever) that was captured ever so perfectly by The Decemberists in their 2006 LP by the same name, continuing when I proposed at a little indoor picnic before we headed out to a magical Decemberists concert (where we got commemorative t-shirts) and stays present in all our projects today (including my half-sleeve on my left arm).
Cranes are loyal, mating for life, they are represented in Greek, Roman, and Asian cultures as a bird of joy, of light, and youthful happiness, as well as symbolizing harmony & peace. One look at any of the family of sites, and you’ll see we strive to never take life too seriously, preferring personal happiness over popularity or wealth. And yeah, we intend to “mate for life”.
When my old music blog tsururadio first went online on January of 2007, I wanted something that represented my love of music and the love of my life, and when it finally popped in our collective heads, it was just too perfect. Since then, my incredibly talented partner, who I always referred to on message boards and on my site as “TsuruBride” started taking her amazing work online to show her friends and fans what’s going on, it only made sense to keep the TsuruBride moniker that she’d become known as to our friends & fans.
08-31-18, 04:26 AM
#63
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08-31-18, 04:30 AM
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08-31-18, 04:35 AM
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08-31-18, 04:41 AM
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08-31-18, 04:50 AM
#67
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Yeah, for work a bunch, HK, Shanghai, etc. (I'm in fashion). Yeah, there's no commute bike riding in HK, but there is some riding in some of the mountains, so we'll see how it goes. Could just end up spending the next 3 years hiking & running, take a break from bikes. We'll see! Can always pick it back up when we return in 2021. =)
08-31-18, 09:07 AM
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Well, one need not buy the bike or read the manual. One could have just looked at it - 349 wheels, rim brakes, no non-proprietary, wide gear range dereilleur drivetrain. It's amazing what you can see when you actually look at something. As I said before, if a disk-brake, wide gear-range standard dereilleur drivetrain 451er is what he needs, it begs the question of why he bought a Brompton in the first place.
Never go to London, Brompton commuters hunt in packs
08-31-18, 11:10 AM
#69
Senior Member
It's amazing what you can find out when you read the manual too, and that might, in this case, have prevented a mistake. You have this anti-Brompton thing, you mustn't let it get in the way of your judgement, which it, unfortunately, usually does.
Never go to London, Brompton commuters hunt in packs
Never go to London, Brompton commuters hunt in packs
08-31-18, 11:44 AM
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Well, one need not buy the bike or read the manual. One could have just looked at it - 349 wheels, rim brakes, no non-proprietary, wide gear range dereilleur drivetrain. It's amazing what you can see when you actually look at something. As I said before, if a disk-brake, wide gear-range standard dereilleur drivetrain 451er is what he needs, it begs the question of why he bought a Brompton in the first place.
Nobody can know everything and I bet that I could give almost everyone reading this a spec sheet for a PC and nobody could tell me its strengths and weaknesses vs another similar speed but different architecture one.
08-31-18, 02:59 PM
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kidshibuya, did you look at the Brompton manual? I found what it says interesting, especially the bits about the longevity of some parts. I also didn't know I was meant to have a 100 mile service which checked, amongst other things, spoke tension. Since mine has travelled well over that distance, I guess that wasn't a problem...
08-31-18, 04:54 PM
#72
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you keep saying that, but time and time again fail to point out where exactly i err. You are wont to speak in generalities and subjectivities. For example, we are still waiting for you to tell us your weight so we can groud the discussion of tire pressure on measurable inputs, or you do not acknowledge fundamental fluid dynamics (or you are embarrassed about your weightl. That you are reluctant to do this suggest you are unwilling to ground the discussion on more objective grounds. So, go tell it to someone else, Avole, cuz I've got your number.
08-31-18, 05:02 PM
#73
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I would have known. In fact, i do. And if i can figure it out, certainly others can too. The only difference, perhaps, is that i have never been enthralled by the Brompton hype. Look, people's tastes, wants and needs evolve over time; i get that. That's one possible explanation. Another explanation, equally plausible, is that it was a hasty purchasing decision driven by the juggernaut that is the Brompton hype and cult. The question for you is this - why are you so quick and willing to accept one explanation, and so quick and willing to discard the other?
And the analogy wth microprocessors is wholly specious, kid.
And the analogy wth microprocessors is wholly specious, kid.
...
To me a few years ago I would not have known anything about how the bike might handle different types of riding by knowing any of what you said. How many of the people here know how many logical vs physical cores their laptop/PC has? Should you buy one with more of each or fewer but faster ones? Slower quad memory or faster dual? How many PCIe lanes will you need? etc
Nobody can know everything and I bet that I could give almost everyone reading this a spec sheet for a PC and nobody could tell me its strengths and weaknesses vs another similar speed but different architecture one.
To me a few years ago I would not have known anything about how the bike might handle different types of riding by knowing any of what you said. How many of the people here know how many logical vs physical cores their laptop/PC has? Should you buy one with more of each or fewer but faster ones? Slower quad memory or faster dual? How many PCIe lanes will you need? etc
Nobody can know everything and I bet that I could give almost everyone reading this a spec sheet for a PC and nobody could tell me its strengths and weaknesses vs another similar speed but different architecture one.
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 08-31-18 at 05:50 PM.
08-31-18, 06:19 PM
#74
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Objection, argumentative. And nobody needs weird references to a person's weight here.
09-01-18, 12:39 AM
#75
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I would have known. In fact, i do. And if i can figure it out, certainly others can too. The only difference, perhaps, is that i have never been enthralled by the Brompton hype. Look, people's tastes, wants and needs evolve over time; i get that. That's one possible explanation. Another explanation, equally plausible, is that it was a hasty purchasing decision driven by the juggernaut that is the Brompton hype and cult. The question for you is this - why are you so quick and willing to accept one explanation, and so quick and willing to discard the other?
And the analogy wth microprocessors is wholly specious, kid.
And the analogy wth microprocessors is wholly specious, kid.
Well lets look at what was said; 349 wheels, rim brakes, no non-proprietary, wide gear range dereilleur drivetrain.
So 349 wheels cant be used much for some reason? Cars with small wheels arent slower than cars with large wheels (actually often large rims ruin car handling) so why should I assume any different in bikes?
And I run rim brakes, all the professional bikes as of a few years ago where all rim brakes, so if they were high performance then how am I meant to know that they actually arent for high performance, though they actually are? And also even if I think about wear on the rims well how are discs any different? Ill think well either the rims or the discs wear, so they are both the same. Same for a wide gear range or non standard parts. First of all if I know nothing about bikes how do I know what is standard or not? You need to know before you know. And for that matter why is non standard not suitable for high performance riding? Many high spec road bikes have non standard seatposts and stems to fit their custom aero profiles, guessing they just arent suitable to be ridden hard? And logically you'd think a wider gear range is better, again as per race bikes, but new riders should know its actually junk?
I think your argument boils down to saying that you arent allowed to buy a bike without studying first to become an expert. This is blaming the customer for the failings of manufactures and I really cant agree with that. I should not be able to damage something just by using it. I dont find it acceptable for a bike to fail, but that is OK because I somehow "rode it wrong".
And how is the computer analogy any different at all? Granted computer parts wont "wear out" but you can still easily buy the wrong one for your uses. And I could laugh and say well, you should have known all about what you were buying. But that is crap, because they manufactures arent selling them with warnings about their specific use cases, they are all just selling as many of them as they can, so there is no user blame here. Brompton are the same, I cant find anywhere they say that their bikes arent meant for serious riders. And let not be naive, the Brompton WC is a marketing campaign to get their bikes seen as sports bikes also. So if Brompton is putting out the message that their bikes are ok to race on why blame a consumer who buy one and rides it hard?