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I Blame the State DMV's...

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I Blame the State DMV's...

Old 10-19-19, 07:07 PM
  #26  
CliffordK
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Are we getting away from the original intent of the rant?

The issue is that:

A group IS singular.
but
The individuals within the group ARE plural.

Often the distinction between singular and plural groups gets complicated. For example endless debates about the proper use of DATA being a group of numbers or observations. People discuss a single datum less frequently.

I found this page about apostrophes and things like abbreviations.
https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp

I choose not to use apostrophes when denoting plurals of abbreviations and acronyms. But, either is acceptable.

And, of course, there are issues with typos, autocorrect, and editing. Homonyms? We all survive with minor grammatical errors, or liberal choices in writing. Did I have a one word sentence?
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Old 10-19-19, 07:28 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Are we getting away from the original intent of the rant?
Yes, and that's a good thing. The rant was inane. The apostrophe discussion is much, much more interesting.

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Old 10-19-19, 07:46 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
As much as I agree with you on this, you realize it would be a highly charged political issue. Any administration implementing this would be quickly removed after the next election by politicians campaigning against such measures.
Well, I have heard the complaint that retesting the septuagenarians and octogenarians is "age discrimination".

The elderly drivers do change, sometimes for the better, being more careful drivers, and often driving less. But, at some point, many drivers become unsafe, and often nothing is done until some major event happens.

Retesting every 5 years would be a major hassle for all, but if they are safe drivers, it shouldn't be more than a minor annoyance.

Restricted licenses? Home to store?

This topic brought up the thought of doing a single retest of young drivers, make sure they're slowly improving, and not ignoring everything they should have known.
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Old 10-19-19, 08:02 PM
  #29  
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Apostrophes is the plural of apostrophe. Apostrophe-s is an apostrophe followed by an s.

Nobody dots the letter I, and while you might top a T, you don’t cross it.

Finally, while 6’s and 7’s versus 6s and 7s is an “interesting” academic question, almost every copy editor will guide a writer towards or toward sixes and sevens.

-mr. bill
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Old 10-19-19, 08:35 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Finally, while 6’s and 7’s versus 6s and 7s is an “interesting” academic question, almost every copy editor will guide a writer towards or toward sixes and sevens.
Oh, unless one has very possessive numbers.

So, in Star Trek, one has Number One...

And... 1's job is to go on all the dangerous missions while the captain stays on the ship.
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Old 10-20-19, 05:51 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
The only real trouble I've had with other vehicles on the road whilst I was riding a bicycle was with other BICYCLISTS. I Hamilton Ontario (Canada) I crashed into a bicycle that came zooming out of a one way street (the bicyclist was riding the wrong direction) onto a bust main street King Street. What made it so bad and unavoidable was that the street the wrong direction riding bicyclist came out od had a blind corner and he was not visible to traffic. The other instance was a crash at night when a bicyclist in dark clothing on a dark colour bicycle was riding on a sidewalk that was in a poorly lit area and he decided to suddenly cross the road but did so without looking and from under a large tree in full leaf that rendered him invisible.

There are idiot bicyclists just as there are idiot E-bike riders just like there are idiot automobile drivers.

Cheers
Well, you are in freaking Canada for christsake... try a bike commute in a typical crowded azzhle American city during rush hour on a "share the road" street... Now that's competitive road use, my friend. (gee, you use "whilst;" we know you are in the "land of polite." Say hi to my friends in Calgary )

As far as the DMV... wouldn't it be cool if they tested drivers with a video drive simulator that included things like "cyclists taking a lane?" Imagine the scores...
"Uh sorry sir, you killed a cyclist... no license for you." "Oh and that's the low score for the week."

Last edited by genec; 10-20-19 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 10-20-19, 08:08 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by genec
Well, you are in freaking Canada for christsake... try a bike commute in a typical crowded azzhle American city during rush hour on a "share the road" street... Now that's competitive road use, my friend. (gee, you use "whilst;" we know you are in the "land of polite." Say hi to my friends in Calgary )

As far as the DMV... wouldn't it be cool if they tested drivers with a video drive simulator that included things like "cyclists taking a lane?" Imagine the scores...
"Uh sorry sir, you killed a cyclist... no license for you." "Oh and that's the low score for the week."
WOW! No need to cuss.

FWIW, I commuted for years in Toronto Canada during rush hour on some very busy streets without any bicycle lanes or other bicycling infrastructure at all. Some of those streets included Eglinton Ave, Bloor Street, Yonge Street and Finch Avenue. Therefore I'd say that I do have experience riding on very busy roads with heavy traffic in rush hour.

Yes, it'd be nice if motorists were tested in a better way. It'd also be nice if motorists paid a heavier price whenever they caused an "accident". It'd also be nice if bicyclists would behave in a predictable manner and obeyed the law as applicable to them. Like I said, my two bicycling accidents were caused not by irresponsible motor vehicle drivers but by irresponsible bicyclists.

Once the testing is done for ANY road user how do they intend to enforce those standards? I see many motorists taking actions that put others at risk and I've see police officers watch that action and do nothing. Is it only when someone gets seriously injured or killed that action will be taken.

We can test from now until doomsday but the thing is that once the tests are passed the motorists (or bicyclists) will revert to their standard behaviour unless there is more enforcement of laws as they pertain to dangerous actions taken by motorists.

Cheers
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Old 10-20-19, 08:33 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
A group IS singular.
Which is why members of the group use the plural pronoun "we" when referring to the group.

Originally Posted by CliffordK
The individuals within the group ARE plural.
Since the "individuals" you refer to above = "the group", and you claim "the group" is singular, then by your logic the "individuals" must then be singular, right?
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Old 10-20-19, 09:31 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
WOW! No need to cuss.

FWIW, I commuted for years in Toronto Canada during rush hour on some very busy streets without any bicycle lanes or other bicycling infrastructure at all. Some of those streets included Eglinton Ave, Bloor Street, Yonge Street and Finch Avenue. Therefore I'd say that I do have experience riding on very busy roads with heavy traffic in rush hour.

Yes, it'd be nice if motorists were tested in a better way. It'd also be nice if motorists paid a heavier price whenever they caused an "accident". It'd also be nice if bicyclists would behave in a predictable manner and obeyed the law as applicable to them. Like I said, my two bicycling accidents were caused not by irresponsible motor vehicle drivers but by irresponsible bicyclists.

Once the testing is done for ANY road user how do they intend to enforce those standards? I see many motorists taking actions that put others at risk and I've see police officers watch that action and do nothing. Is it only when someone gets seriously injured or killed that action will be taken.

We can test from now until doomsday but the thing is that once the tests are passed the motorists (or bicyclists) will revert to their standard behaviour unless there is more enforcement of laws as they pertain to dangerous actions taken by motorists.

Cheers
Yeah, I've heard Toronto can be rough... blame on poutine and transplanted NYC habits.

BC and Calgary are a bit less hostile.

And, as far as drivers... mandatory 5 or 7 year retesting on simulators, that use real world situations and measure reaction times... reduce the DMV lines to first timers, and folks with complicated paperwork.

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Old 10-20-19, 09:44 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
WOW! No need to cuss.

FWIW, I commuted for years in Toronto Canada during rush hour on some very busy streets without any bicycle lanes or other bicycling infrastructure at all. Some of those streets included Eglinton Ave, Bloor Street, Yonge Street and Finch Avenue. Therefore I'd say that I do have experience riding on very busy roads with heavy traffic in rush hour.

Yes, it'd be nice if motorists were tested in a better way. It'd also be nice if motorists paid a heavier price whenever they caused an "accident". It'd also be nice if bicyclists would behave in a predictable manner and obeyed the law as applicable to them. Like I said, my two bicycling accidents were caused not by irresponsible motor vehicle drivers but by irresponsible bicyclists.

Once the testing is done for ANY road user how do they intend to enforce those standards? I see many motorists taking actions that put others at risk and I've see police officers watch that action and do nothing. Is it only when someone gets seriously injured or killed that action will be taken.

We can test from now until doomsday but the thing is that once the tests are passed the motorists (or bicyclists) will revert to their standard behaviour unless there is more enforcement of laws as they pertain to dangerous actions taken by motorists.

Cheers
I've never found those driving simulator games to be particularly realistic feeling, although it could be a programming thing. I think some flight training simulators are good, although, again, they may not give an accurate feel for the plane.

The "written" exams are now being done on computer which can include video scenarios. I think the kids have to get something like 80% right, but I do think there should be some "Veto" questions that if they are wrong it is an automatic failure. Things like cross walk questions, safe passing of bicycles, etc.

When I took my driving exam, years ago, I was instructed to pull up behind two kids crossing a moderately busy 3 or 4 lane street on their bikes. I had no idea what to do, so I just sat and waited for them to cross... and didn't fail the test.

They should take statistics on written questions that are frequently failed. On my written exam, there was a question about what to do if another car comes up behind oneself. Speed up, maintain speed, or slow down. I think the actual answer required more situational information than was provided in the question.
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Old 10-20-19, 06:51 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I've never found those driving simulator games to be particularly realistic feeling, although it could be a programming thing. I think some flight training simulators are good, although, again, they may not give an accurate feel for the plane.

The "written" exams are now being done on computer which can include video scenarios. I think the kids have to get something like 80% right, but I do think there should be some "Veto" questions that if they are wrong it is an automatic failure. Things like cross walk questions, safe passing of bicycles, etc.

When I took my driving exam, years ago, I was instructed to pull up behind two kids crossing a moderately busy 3 or 4 lane street on their bikes. I had no idea what to do, so I just sat and waited for them to cross... and didn't fail the test.

They should take statistics on written questions that are frequently failed. On my written exam, there was a question about what to do if another car comes up behind oneself. Speed up, maintain speed, or slow down. I think the actual answer required more situational information than was provided in the question.
Yeah, those simulators are so easy... every one should pass, eh?
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Old 10-21-19, 03:21 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman
"The only difference between a weed and a flower, is a judgement." Anon.
Sounds like Jim Stafford to me.

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Old 11-01-19, 09:46 AM
  #38  
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Just need to vent: Arg! I'm really tired of drivers constantly telling me to use the sidewalk! It's very irritating because the majority don't cycle and therefore, aren't familiar with what is and isn't safe. It's not safe to cycle on the sidewalk, downhill at 25-30+ mph, with sideroads and driveways along the sidewalk. Drivers wouldn't have visibility to see me coming down that fast, some like to stop for a split second and quickly pull out of the sidestreet, and my bike isn't like a car (which can stop with brakes more quickly and suddenly).

I'm tired of drivers automatically assuming that because I'm cycling on the road, or in the middle, avoiding potholes and debris, that I must be doing something wrong. It's not the end of the world for a driver to spend two seconds, slowing down and passing a cyclist or another vehicle, especially when the driver also has enough time to spare to harass a cyclist.

It comes across as really arrogant when drivers automatically think they know everything about what a cyclist should or shouldn't do when they don't know anything about cycling on the road.

The "advice" that they think they're trying to give to cyclists is bad and wrong; if I followed their advice, I'd be hit by a car pulling out from a sidestreet or driveway (and it most likely wouldn't be considered the driver's fault because they wouldn't expect or be able to see me going downhill that fast; it would be considered my fault for speeding down the sidewalk).

It's unbelievable to think that there are drivers who are giving cyclists (possibly teaching their children that, too--because one driver who honked at me turned into an elementary school parking lot) that bad, unsafe advice and that they might follow their advice and get hit.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they're harassing me is because they see my backpack that I use to commute and are incorrectly assuming I'm a child (who is ignorant about the rules of the road).

Last edited by anon06; 11-01-19 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:56 PM
  #39  
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And speaking of riding on the sidewalk...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...tion-1.5344233
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Old 11-01-19, 10:14 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by anon06
Just need to vent: Arg! I'm really tired of drivers constantly telling me to use the sidewalk! It's very irritating because the majority don't cycle and therefore, aren't familiar with what is and isn't safe. It's not safe to cycle on the sidewalk, downhill at 25-30+ mph, with sideroads and driveways along the sidewalk. Drivers wouldn't have visibility to see me coming down that fast, some like to stop for a split second and quickly pull out of the sidestreet, and my bike isn't like a car (which can stop with brakes more quickly and suddenly).

I'm tired of drivers automatically assuming that because I'm cycling on the road, or in the middle, avoiding potholes and debris, that I must be doing something wrong. It's not the end of the world for a driver to spend two seconds, slowing down and passing a cyclist or another vehicle, especially when the driver also has enough time to spare to harass a cyclist.

It comes across as really arrogant when drivers automatically think they know everything about what a cyclist should or shouldn't do when they don't know anything about cycling on the road.

The "advice" that they think they're trying to give to cyclists is bad and wrong; if I followed their advice, I'd be hit by a car pulling out from a sidestreet or driveway (and it most likely wouldn't be considered the driver's fault because they wouldn't expect or be able to see me going downhill that fast; it would be considered my fault for speeding down the sidewalk).

It's unbelievable to think that there are drivers who are giving cyclists (possibly teaching their children that, too--because one driver who honked at me turned into an elementary school parking lot) that bad, unsafe advice and that they might follow their advice and get hit.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they're harassing me is because they see my backpack that I use to commute and are incorrectly assuming I'm a child (who is ignorant about the rules of the road).
I've got two responses to that "advice": "read the effing statute" and a one finger salute. No one should be that ignorant of the rules of the road in this day and age.
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Old 11-01-19, 11:51 PM
  #41  
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It's not safe either way, if you assume one or the other is totally safe. You still have to look and listen and be careful.
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