bikemig 

Old Moto catalogs are a bit of a mess and I was hoping I could get some help on a 70s era Motobecane Grand Record I just picked up. I'm guessing the date is 1973. The campy RD is 1972 but the bike is a full Reynolds 531 and that is consistent with the 1973 catalog. The parts seem to fit the 1973 catalog: normandy competition high flange hubs, TA crank (the catalog spec is stronglight though), campy derailleurs, weinmann center pull brakes, atom 700 pedals (one of the pedals is an atom pedal, the other is a piece of junk that I'll bet was forced in since this is likely a french threaded crank ) , stronglight headset, pivo bar and stem).

So I'm excited by picking up this bike esp. since I wasn't counting it on having a reynolds fork. I'll likely rebuilt it in the spring alongside a mid 70s mercier 300 I picked up earlier this year.

(1) The crank is likely shot and may well need replacing. Does this bike have a swiss or a french threaded bottom bracket. Is there any way of telling?

(2) Is the freewheel and rear hub likely to be french threaded?

(3) The seat and seatpost are cheap replacements. What sort of seatpost might have been used on the bike? It seems a shame to run a kalloy but they do come in sizes and they're cheap. I'll run a brooks saddle on it.

(4) I'm not sure about the bar and stem. That stem is jacked too high and I'll bet it was ridden like that for a long time. I'm leaning towards tossing it out and going with something I trust. What are my best options? A nitto is my favorite but it doesn't seem right for this bike.

The paint job is in good job. There are some minor battle scars and some cracking but all and all this is a fine paint job for an old bike.

CV-6 

What makes you think the crank is shot? It will be French. Swiss on Motos came later. That TA is a nice setup.
Most likely French. But stranger things have happened.
Catalog says alloy seat post. Could well have been a straight pin that used a separate clamp. You could always go Campagnolo or Simplex.

I sense a bit of overcaution. That Pivo is not one of the legendary "break when you breathe on it" stems but is a later type. The main issue in my mind is the bar is likely a very narrow (IMO) type. Nothing wrong with going Nitto for the stem and bar. I have wide Nitto bars on several of my French bikes. It's your bike and if you plan to ride it, then get what works for you.

desconhecido 

I think I got the Nervar thing wrong -- looks more like a TA.

That crank looks a lot like a Nervar. One of the Motobacane afficionados here has said that the Yellow Jersey guy near Madison, WI said that Motos of the era could chow up with either Stronglight or Nervar cranks. The inner ring is a 6 bolt ring so it looks like a pair of TA rings (or Velo Orangs) mounted to a Nervar crankset.

If your cranks are damaged, you might want to search the C&V sales thread for "Nervar" because there was a Nervar set with 54/40 rings offered for sale for what seems like a very good price back in July. It may still be available, I don't know. I've been thinking about contacting the seller. That offer included an English threaded BB, but if your BB is good, the cranks should bolt right to it. Also, the spindle would probably be interchangable (wag).

The stem looks to be a nice stem and if there's no obvious damage when you pull it out for inspection, it wouldn't need to be replaced, one would think. I'm told that the Pivo stems and the Philippe stems of the era -- those that look like Cinelli 1A stems, are not failure prone. If you lan to use the bars with another stem, measure first, cause the bars may be 25.0 mm. Also, a Nitto stem may need to be sanded to fit in the steerer.

That looks like a really nice bike. I bought one a couple days ago -- 1977, same black as yours. It is in the loving hands of Fedex, delivery Wednesday or Thursday.

desconhecido 

If you do replace some parts -- stem and bars and crankset or whatever, consider passing the old parts along through the forum C&V sales. All good stuff to somebody.

juvela

-----

Chainset is indeed a SPECTA and not a Peyrard. In my area all of these came through wearing the ninety-three. Given it was the boom, parts were where they could be found for manufacturers.

Yes to everything written by the aircraft carrier!

Pedal tip -

Do not attempt removal without first removing arm from spindle. Then you can chuck the arm up in a beefy bench vise and have both hands free to pull on a jumbo cheater bar. Once you have it out you can run a tap through. There may be a forum member with an unwed 700 they could vector your way...

Wheels -

In case your build plans, now or in the future, involve another set of wheels keep in mind that the 700 hub launched in this year and so would be period correct and an upgrade over the Luxe Competition.

Pillar -

If you wish to keep it Gaulique other options for a pillar with an integral clamp besides the Juy are the Routens (JPR) and the true Laprade (Laprade Brevete).

​​​​​​​You will have lots of enjoyment with this project Miguel. An excellent find!

-----

desconhecido 

Closer look and comparison to Nervar and TA cranks, looks more like TA than Nervar.

bikemig 

All great information; thank you. I was concerned about the crank primarily because the bike came with a cheap pedal replacement on one side and I suspected that there might be some damage to the spindle. There is not which is cool and the crank is english threaded (doubly cool). It's good to know that the BB is French threaded as that is easier to deal with in terms of finding parts than a Swiss BB. The cones are shot on the normandy competition hubs and I reckon cones for those hubs are unobtanium as I don't think the cones from the cheap normandy hubs will work.

I don't mind running a straight seatpost but then the saddle will be a bit forward esp. if I go with a brooks which has such short rails. Maybe I'll just run a selle anatomica with nice long rails to solve that problem.

The bike came to be with the stem too high but it looks to be a good one so I may keep the bar and stem or maybe go with a nitto and sand it down.

The TA crank is very nice and I'll keep it. I actually have some TA replacement rings so I'll be able to run a 46/36 on this and a 14-28 on the rear which will come in handy when riding the Iowa alps,

bikemig 

I'd love to find an orphan right 700 but that's a long shot. I have some lyotard 460s that I can run in a pinch if I want to keep it toute francais. For the wheels, the cones for the front wheel are shot. Fortunately I have a set of wheels with high flange tipo hubs (with the round holes) and ambrosio rims that I took off a Gitane TdF that floated thru my workshop. I sold the frame and kept the parts. The wheels will do nicely on this bike. I'm going to try to build this bike with parts on hand.

I'm excited by the bike and I'll get to build 2 French bikes next spring (this and a kelly green mercier 300 I picked up earlier this year).

unworthy1

'73 looks to be correct, the "74 (USA spec) would have a round headbadge andmaybe Nitto Pearl stem plus Brooks saddle and "3-pin" TA crankset...anyhow a great find, enjoy it!
BTW,if you can settle for Atom 600 pedals LMK I have a pair or 2 but don't think I have any 700s, will check!

Andy_K 

bikemig 

The existing pivo stem is shorter than I like but a seatpost with some setback will help (or a saddle with longer rails). I think I'll be checking out ebay. Kalloy makes a decent inexpensive seatpost that comes in sizes as well. I may end up sanding down a nitto to fit though. I think some of the 70s era Motos used nitto stems as well. Origin 8 stems sometimes drop right in on a french bike but that definitely won't look right.

bikemig 

Cool, I'd definitely be interested in the 700s if you have them. The 600s could be sweet also but I don't think they're serviceable, right?

big chainring 

Cool. I bought one of these new in '72. My first "good" ten speed. $225 back then. Purchased it at a Schwinn store that also sold Motobecane. Sales guy wrote up the sales receipt as Motorbecane. '72 was the first year of the black/red color combo. It also became my first "Track" bike. Converted it to fixed gear and raced it till I got a used Paramount.

Had issues with the front hub and ground the heck out of the cones. Even back then there were no replacements to be found. Also keep notice of the fixed cup in BB. French cups want to unscrew as you pedal. I had a constant problems with that.

JohnDThompson 

I think it's a TA crank that's just missing its sticker. The Nevar 5-pin arms were broader than the TA, and had a diamond-shaped recess:

desconhecido 

You are, of course, correct. From one angle shot of the TA, I thought I saw the narrowing towards the pedal eye and the Nervar stippling finish which is probably just residue from the sticker, I think.

I guess, a lot of times one finds what one's looking for and the fact that some of these bikes showed up with Nervar cranks must have been bouncing around in my head, unimpeded, losing very little momentum with each physical interaction, and the missing TA decal and 6 arms on the ring and I concluded wrongly Nervar with TA rings.

Do you still have that Nervar set for sale? If you do, I think I can use it.

Aubergine 

bikemig 

It's a TA; the dust caps and chain rings are TA. Looking forward to see your build on the Jubilee but I think that may be a little later than '73? I'm no expert on motobecanes though.

unworthy1

I looked and so far only found one pair of 600 pedals (small chance I may have others but doubtful). These are fully serviceable: I left the pedal caps loose and unscrewed them to see regular locknuts and the spindles slotted for tabbed washers. I did not rebuild these but the grease is not hardened and they spin fine if somewhat loose. I definitely would rebuild and adjust them if I was going to ride them. The spindle ends are marked R and L so am pretty sure they have standard threads (but can check that). LMK if you want pix

bikemig 

PM sent. I did some reading on them. Looks like the 2d gen 600s are not serviceable but the first gen are which these likely are.

clubman 

Agreed. The milled section is far different from any of the 1/2 dozen TA cranks I've owned.

edit. OK it might just be the light because here's a crank from Hilarys site that bears some similarities to the OP's. I'd still say it's a different generation of crank.

bikemig 

Good point about the fixed cup. I'll likely pull the cups since I'll want to use some frame saver; I might use loctite on the fixed cup when I reinstall it.

inkandsilver

Great find, bikemig!

On some French bikes, Nitto stems will fit with no sanding needed. Or possibly with only a little relieving of the locknut opening. I have a cheapie Origin8 stem that also fit easily on my '74.

Another FYI, on my '74 I can fit big fat 700x41mm (actual) Soma Supple Vitesse tires. This will only work with centerpulls, and I had to take a bit of material off of the bottom of the Weinmann 610 mounting yoke up front.

And the ride is sublime. Enjoy the spring build.

PM me if you haven't found pedals yet -- I have a pair of Atoms but I don't remember the model.

motogeek 

Good to see another Grand Record from the early '70s being renovated. These are great bikes. I have 4, with one of those being reborn into a totally French-equipped Grand Randonneur. Hopefully I'll be able to start painting and assembly by Spring, as we have just moved and the bikes have had to take a back seat to more pressing projects (or so my wife says. )

Raleigh74

GrainBrain

Followed a link here from another thread ... How'd I miss this!?

Was this on Craig's? And how many minutes was it from the seller posting the ad to you contacting them?