Why the war between drivers and cyclists?
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Yet you want cyclists to yield to you and get off the road and onto the shoulder. You DO realize that a shoulder is not part of the road, right? I didn't think so...see, you get to learn lots of new things as you evolve from a clueless motorist into a competent motorist/cyclist.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
#127
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There's the rub - it's a numbers game. If .1% of people are completely incompetent, and you deal with 1000 people in a week...the law of averages say you're getting one. I know dang well that you're right - it's just that the two so close together have me spooked.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
#129
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No, indeed it is not a war... but dammit, how about if some of those idiots out there realize that I am just as human as they are, and I have every right to use the same PUBLIC roads. (Of course I suppose some of those idiots might be somewhat sub human... )
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Yeah, Chip, but not all the nutballs, morons and downright jerks are in a position to kill you... I can tolerate the guy that forgets to put cheese on the pizza, or the moron that can't make change when I throw in the 27 cents... or the nutball that brings 15 items to the 12 items or less lane... but the guy thinking he owns the road, and bears down on me with his monster truck... well, that's a wee bit different, eh?
No, indeed it is not a war... but dammit, how about if some of those idiots out there realize that I am just as human as they are, and I have every right to use the same PUBLIC roads. (Of course I suppose some of those idiots might be somewhat sub human... )
No, indeed it is not a war... but dammit, how about if some of those idiots out there realize that I am just as human as they are, and I have every right to use the same PUBLIC roads. (Of course I suppose some of those idiots might be somewhat sub human... )
Splain to me how that guy in the monster truck is more dangerous to you on a bike, than say walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road, Gene. It isn't about the vehicle or the activity...it's about people. Some are cool, some not so much. That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
#131
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Perhaps if cyclists would also remember that drivers are human (even the nutballs), rather than treating them all as the enemy in a war, we might make some progress.
Splain to me how that guy in the monster truck is more dangerous to you on a bike, than say walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road, Gene. It isn't about the vehicle or the activity...it's about people. Some are cool, some not so much. That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too.
Splain to me how that guy in the monster truck is more dangerous to you on a bike, than say walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road, Gene. It isn't about the vehicle or the activity...it's about people. Some are cool, some not so much. That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too.
As far as "walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road;" if the guy in the monster truck chooses to bear down on them, they too are in jeopardy.
It is the fact that some folks don't treat each other as equals... as fellow humans, that indeed is what makes the difference. The monster truck is just the metaphorical "weapon" of choice.
As far as this statement... "That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too." All well and good... then we are truly equals... it is being an idiot with 6000 pounds of moving metal that makes the guy dangerous to me or anyone else.
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Perhaps if cyclists would also remember that drivers are human (even the nutballs), rather than treating them all as the enemy in a war, we might make some progress.
Splain to me how that guy in the monster truck is more dangerous to you on a bike, than say walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road, Gene. It isn't about the vehicle or the activity...it's about people. Some are cool, some not so much. That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too.
Splain to me how that guy in the monster truck is more dangerous to you on a bike, than say walking, jogging, riding a horse, or driving a buggy on the same road, Gene. It isn't about the vehicle or the activity...it's about people. Some are cool, some not so much. That same idiot in the monster truck will probably be an idiot on a bicycle too.
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My guess is a good deal closer to 20% dangerous, and 5% deadly.
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Ok now go back and read what I wrote and try again...here let me paraphrase: how does the activity you are doing...ie walking cycling, wacking off, etc. make the wacko in the truck more or less dangerous?
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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Your dad made a very conservative guess. As half of any given large population is gifted with an IQ below 100, there's bound to be quite a few very stupid people out there who have still managed to get a drivers license and a car. That already in itself makes them dangerous. Of these, again quite a few will be pissed off at the world at large because they just don't get what's going on around them. Those are deadly.
My guess is a good deal closer to 20% dangerous, and 5% deadly.
My guess is a good deal closer to 20% dangerous, and 5% deadly.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
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I don't see any wars going on, sure there are a few drivers who hate cyclists but those are far and few between. Problem is the perception of some motorists is that cyclists are rude and poor at following the rules of road...and in general their right! I ride a bike and I drive a car, and I see from both sides. I can't begin to tell you how many cyclists I see that run stop signs and lights in the path of oncoming cars, swerve in front of cars, cut across the bow of cars on heavy traffic forcing them the slam on their brakes, all kinds of crap that if that person was driving a car it would have been considered reckless driving which carries a huge fine and penalties similar to a DUI! But a lot of cyclists think it's ok to be reckless.
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For what it's worth, a safe, legal pass of a cyclist in any lane narrower than 14 feet wide (the minimum standard for a "wide outside lane" as cycling infrastructure) requires entering the oncoming traffic lane anyway. And, I believe that there is precedent in some states for cyclists taking any lane that doesn't meet the WOL standard, without other justification.
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Your dad made a very conservative guess. As half of any given large population is gifted with an IQ below 100, there's bound to be quite a few very stupid people out there who have still managed to get a drivers license and a car. That already in itself makes them dangerous. Of these, again quite a few will be pissed off at the world at large because they just don't get what's going on around them. Those are deadly.
My guess is a good deal closer to 20% dangerous, and 5% deadly.
My guess is a good deal closer to 20% dangerous, and 5% deadly.
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Don't believe its worth much. Can you name the traffic code/law that contains the verbiage that specifies this alleged requirement for a "safe, legal pass of a cyclist"?
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AASHTO and FHWA standards for roadway design, combined with the "as far right as practicable" and safe passing laws.
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Name any "as far right as practicable" and safe passing laws that states that "a safe, legal pass of a cyclist in any lane narrower than 14 feet wide requires entering the oncoming traffic lane."
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I was under the impression that there was case law supporting it, where the AASHTO and FHWA standards were used as a defense for someone taking the lane under 14 feet wide? I don't have any links to such case law, though, and I'm not sure if any motorists have had judgments against them for not passing in the oncoming lane for a lane less than 14 feet wide.
Which, case law is just as good as law in the jurisdictions of the courts that made such case law.
Which, case law is just as good as law in the jurisdictions of the courts that made such case law.
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Why the war.....why the war!!!!
Today I was on a two-lane 30mph road, just outside of the town live in, going 20mph and approaching a 20mph zone. A big 4x4 pickup was on my tail. It was already obvious he wanted me out of his way, considering how he was gunning the engine. So he 'steps on the gas', pulls into the oncoming lane, passes me. Then, He pulls back into the correct lane, intentionally slams on the brakes in the hopes I would rear-end him(knowing he could get away with it if I had crashed into his truck). Then he stepped on the gas intentionally blowing a lot of black smoke.
I don't consider that to be a mistake on the driver's part.
Today I was on a two-lane 30mph road, just outside of the town live in, going 20mph and approaching a 20mph zone. A big 4x4 pickup was on my tail. It was already obvious he wanted me out of his way, considering how he was gunning the engine. So he 'steps on the gas', pulls into the oncoming lane, passes me. Then, He pulls back into the correct lane, intentionally slams on the brakes in the hopes I would rear-end him(knowing he could get away with it if I had crashed into his truck). Then he stepped on the gas intentionally blowing a lot of black smoke.
I don't consider that to be a mistake on the driver's part.
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It sounds intentional, but IME is exceptional. Consider it a reminder that there are more horses' axles than horses out there.
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I was under the impression that there was case law supporting it, where the AASHTO and FHWA standards were used as a defense for someone taking the lane under 14 feet wide? I don't have any links to such case law, though, and I'm not sure if any motorists have had judgments against them for not passing in the oncoming lane for a lane less than 14 feet wide.
Which, case law is just as good as law in the jurisdictions of the courts that made such case law.
Which, case law is just as good as law in the jurisdictions of the courts that made such case law.