Training for Back to Back ride
#26
Jedi Master
24+ hour events and 170 miles over two days are completely different things. On a 12+ hour ride, I'll probably try to get down 250 calories an hour, but I'll ride a century on one or two powerbars and 70 miles fasted. As atwl77 mentioned above, that's a normal weekend. Given the pace last time, I don't think the OP has anything to worry about.
#27
just another gosling
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24+ hour events and 170 miles over two days are completely different things. On a 12+ hour ride, I'll probably try to get down 250 calories an hour, but I'll ride a century on one or two powerbars and 70 miles fasted. As atwl77 mentioned above, that's a normal weekend. Given the pace last time, I don't think the OP has anything to worry about.
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#28
Jedi Master
I don't know about that. I use that model on every ride on which I'm not trying to emphasize fat burning, but rather trying to emphasize getting it done. My wife uses exactly those substances, I make my own, but the model is the same. I have had better experiences in staying light and keeping the pace up and a much better ride the next day if I eat high carb on the bike at somewhere around the rate you mention. Frankly, other than bragging rights, I don't see the point of undereating on the ride. I don't think 170 miles is the normal weekend for our OP, and holding a 16 average for 100 miles and 4000' is not a slow pace. That's 6.25 hours. Give him an hour in rest stops and that's 7.25 or a 9 hour pace for a 200k (13:30 cutoff time). That's quite respectable.
#29
just another gosling
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I certainly didn't intend any disrespect to anyone so apologies if it came off that way. Everyone's different, but I personally fuel very differently for short rides (under 100 miles) than long ones. My understanding is that fasted rides train your body to burn fat on the long rides, and I have personally had a lot of success with fasted/low-calorie training to prepare for longer endurance events. When I first started riding distance events, I didn't eat enough, then I ate too much, and I always felt like crap. It took a while to figure out what worked for me, and what works is training with almost no calories and a steady stream of bike food and gatorade on longer rides. I don't know anything about nutrition other than my personal experiences, so I will always defer to your expertise on that topic. I just wanted to point out out that it's not always the case that fueling strategy for a 24+hour event should be the same as for 6-7 hour rides.
I hear what you're saying and have also done fasted riding. I do believe that speeds up the process, though I suspect it will happen anyway if one rides enough. After all, one can only eat half one's burn if one is going fairly hard, so the rest is recruited from fat stores already, even not fasted. I'm terribly biased however, by being a performance rider. I TT everything. I can't help myself. It's a weakness, I know, but OTOH I have a lot of fun with it. Looking at it in that light, after about 50 miles of riding as hard as I think I can and still finish, I notice that my HR won't come up like it did, and I'm losing power. What to do? Well, that's happened because I've been having so much fun I haven't bothered to eat. So I drink about 200 calories and 10 minutes later I'm back in the game. So that's why I preach that the first 3 hours are the most important for establishing a pattern of nutrition and hydration.
For every distance ride which is important to me, I have a plan: hydration, nutrition, elimination, what, when, where. I try to stick to the plan. Another bit of planning I do is caps: whether I'm watching my HR or power, I have a cap that I try not to go over unless it's going to be to my overall advantage. If I am feeling good that last 100k or 20 miles or whatever, I spend what I saved - unless of course I have to do it again tomorrow. Sometimes of course it works out that I didn't save enough and I suffer. It's good to know where the edges are.
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#30
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I think it comes with riding too, I always noticed my need to eat was a lot less on a 400k. So after the 300k, I got better at burning fat. I just did a fasted ride this morning. Vaguely interesting, I should have been doing more of it.
Only problem with not eating is it can make it difficult to start eating again.
Only problem with not eating is it can make it difficult to start eating again.