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1000% OMNIGEAR BIKE Wide range cassette with a triple

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1000% OMNIGEAR BIKE Wide range cassette with a triple

Old 01-21-21, 12:03 PM
  #26  
subgrade
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Just make sure the wide range cassette with the 10T cog fits your freehub. I believe only SRAM XD and Shimano MicroSpline freehubs do this.

Regarding towing the sailboat, this video might contain a couple things to consider.

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Old 01-21-21, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
I am a novice at this but I imagine that towing a heavy load up a steep hill must present issues keeping the front wheel down?
How do you counteract that?
The tow load attaches to the rear triangle/dropouts, so the rotational moment lifting the front wheel off is pretty manageable. I tried towing my kayak by hanging the bow from a rod mounted on my seat post, and that did present a problem like you said, because the load was acting above the plane of the hubs and could therefore rotate the bike up and over the rear hub. But if the trailer is mounted at the rear triangle, it's impossible for it apply rotational moment to the bike, so it works just fine even up very steep hills, in my experience
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Old 01-21-21, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he would size the chain for big/big..... but re-reading his post.... maybe not.
True, I would not, because there would be no reason to. I would never use the big-big combo, ever. Nor the small-small. That is called cross-chaining and I believe it doesn't work well even if the chain is sized correctly because the chain line is too crooked, especially on a smaller frame with short chainstays, such as my bike. The big and small rings would basically be 2 extra speeds on top of a 1x10 drivetrain. Equivalent to a 12-speed cassette with a 80 tooth climbing/towing cog and a 7-tooth speed cog.

Idk I have a feeling that is SRAM announced a 7-50+ cassette, the 1x folks would trip over eachother trying to throw money at it
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Old 01-21-21, 07:02 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by subgrade View Post
Just make sure the wide range cassette with the 10T cog fits your freehub. I believe only SRAM XD and Shimano MicroSpline freehubs do this

Uh-oh... For some reason I was under the impression that shimano 10 speed cassettes were backwards compatible with all their 7/8/9 speed freehubs?


That's an insane video. A guy I know here in Seattle went on tour pulling a homemade bike camper, but his was less than 150-lbs and made of old corrugated plastic campaign signs stitched together with nylon zip-ties. Easier to tow but probably a lot less cozy.


The trailer mount they had made was a good idea, but obviously they botched the design by bringing the load path over the top tube and around the seatpost, so high above the stable plane of the hubs. It's no wonder he had almost zero control of the bike. A better option is something like the rear-triangle trailer mount sold by BikesAtWork.com. Also, not having trailer brakes is a terrible idea with so much weight, that guy is lucky it was just his bike that was destroyed, and not both his legs, or worse. After all, 700-kg is over 1,500-lbs so almost 5x the weight of my boat!
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Old 01-21-21, 07:12 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Andy_Z View Post
True, I would not, because there would be no reason to. I would never use the big-big combo, ever. Nor the small-small. That is called cross-chaining and I believe it doesn't work well even if the chain is sized correctly because the chain line is too crooked, especially on a smaller frame with short chainstays, such as my bike. The big and small rings would basically be 2 extra speeds on top of a 1x10 drivetrain. Equivalent to a 12-speed cassette with a 80 tooth climbing/towing cog and a 7-tooth speed cog.

Idk I have a feeling that is SRAM announced a 7-50+ cassette, the 1x folks would trip over eachother trying to throw money at it
Hey, if you want to be one mis-shift away from destroying your drive-train, have at.

The smart thing to do would be to size the chain for big-big and just lose more of the cassette in the small ring.
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Old 01-21-21, 07:15 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Andy_Z View Post
Uh-oh... For some reason I was under the impression that shimano 10 speed cassettes were backwards compatible with all their 7/8/9 speed freehubs?
The 10 speed cassettes are. So are the Shimano 11 speed MTB cassettes.
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Old 01-21-21, 08:25 PM
  #32  
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I do like the OP assuming that everyone hauls a 350 lb boat behind them.
But I wonder also if people are not making an overly big deal about derailleur capacity. Does anyone actually go big-big or small-small on a triple? The chainline is bad enough on a double.
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Old 01-21-21, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sincos View Post
I do like the OP assuming that everyone hauls a 350 lb boat behind them.
But I wonder also if people are not making an overly big deal about derailleur capacity. Does anyone actually go big-big or small-small on a triple? The chainline is bad enough on a double.
It's a hybrid flatbar thing. Once you break that guilt feeling & try it, you'll always second guess everything else in life that is known to be forbidden because others told you it was.

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Old 01-21-21, 08:31 PM
  #34  
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What is the minimum speed you can ride without tipping over?
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Old 01-21-21, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
What is the minimum speed you can ride without tipping over?
with a trailer affixed, it might not matter.
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Old 01-22-21, 02:01 AM
  #36  
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On my touring bike I have a 48-36-26 with a 10 speed 11-32 in the rear (or a 11-36 which I have in my garage in case I want to do a sailboat towing race uphill).

There's a couple of reasons not to do what you propose, one of which is the same reason why I switched from 11-36 to 11-32 in the rear on it - gear spacing. With an enormous dinnerplate cassette in the rear, the jumps between cogs are big enough that it's bothersome. The other reason is that, for the most part, it's simply not necessary, because most hills in most places where people choose to ride just aren't steep enough that a typical road double with a 11-28 or 11-30 in the rear is going to run out of gears. If you never ride double digit climbs then you're just hauling unecessary weight. Mechanically, big differences between chainrings and a big cassette would require a honking big rear derailleur and chain to actually work well.

Of course, there are times when a triple is brilliant - going up a hill which goes well into the double digits knowing you have the gearing to simply sit and spin a comfortable cadence without getting out of the saddle, struggling with traction, tacking and whatnot is quite simply brilliant.

I just don't see the bike industry moving in that direction - on the road I'd predict that they'll increase the gearing range by going 12 speed with smaller chainrings in front and something like 10-30 cassettes in rear. Economically it makes more sense for them to ditch the triples to streamline production and inventory.
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Old 01-22-21, 06:57 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
it's simply not necessary, because most hills in most places where people choose to ride just aren't steep enough that a typical road double with a 11-28 or 11-30 in the rear is going to run out of gears. If you never ride double digit climbs then you're just hauling unecessary weight.
That's a good point. I'll take a real close look at the ramp the next time I put my boat in the water. I mean, it can't possibly be very steep because after all, some people use ordinary trucks to put their boats in and out.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:04 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sincos View Post
I do like the OP assuming that everyone hauls a 350 lb boat behind them.
But I wonder also if people are not making an overly big deal about derailleur capacity. Does anyone actually go big-big or small-small on a triple? The chainline is bad enough on a double.
The issue with “losing” the big-big combo is that if you accidentally shift into it - even once - there is a high likely hood of doing serious damage to some part of your drivetrain.

What the OP is talking about is having not just one, but several drivetrain-ending gear combinations.

I’ve given him advice on how to avoid this.

If you are going to lose gear combos, always lose them from the small ring, never the big ring. Do this by sizing the chain for big-big, and let things fall where they may in the small ring.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:08 AM
  #39  
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22T small ring and 54t big ring is a huge spread (32t). What FDs can handle that?
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Old 01-22-21, 01:00 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
The smart thing to do would be to size the chain for big-big and just lose more of the cassette in the small ring.
I don't think this thread is about doing the smart thing.
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Old 01-22-21, 02:51 PM
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I rode a trike (KMX Kobra, I think was the model) that had a triple up front, 9 speed in back, and an addition triple in the middle somewhere that gave it a pretty insane range, but I don't know the specs and the total usable gear range on it. I do know that when I shifting the lowest possible gearing, I was spinning at about 80 rpms and going maybe 2.5 mph, so it was a serious hill climber.
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Old 01-22-21, 04:54 PM
  #42  
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I’ll stick with the 46-36-24 for loaded touring, because sometimes, mountains. Pedaled this up a 15 mile dirt/gravel/rock road during my last tour out west. Ruling grade was about 8.9%. Packed for camping, full cooking and cold temperatures.


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Old 01-22-21, 07:40 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
The issue with “losing” the big-big combo is that if you accidentally shift into it - even once - there is a high likely hood of doing serious damage to some part of your drivetrain.
I still don't see how that's possible -- the chainline will tell you to back off when you get close, so will resistance if you don't have the capacity. Forcing things is never a good idea. But it's probably true that we cannot assume anything -- I still see less expensive new bikes with lawyer lips -- so no doubt you're right.

What the OP is talking about is having not just one, but several drivetrain-ending gear combinations.
I don't think it's an issue for the OP, who treats his triple as a 1x + granny + giant. Then again he thinks hauling a sailboat is normal, so he's probably in the tail of the distribution.
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Old 01-22-21, 08:11 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by sincos View Post
I still don't see how that's possible -- the chainline will tell you to back off when you get close,
Why would chain-line necessarily tell you anything? I could easily shift into my big big combo on my old 3x9 (not that I did so intentionally very often).

Originally Posted by sincos View Post
so will resistance if you don't have the capacity.
Resistance in the pedaling may increase (sort of, but it will likely be too late) but not in the shifting. If you have the capacity for your 2nd biggest cog, but not your first, then you will shift into the 2nd biggest no problem. And you will most likely START to shift into the biggest cog with no problem, as you are barely using any more slack. The problem comes as the chain on the larger cog starts making its way around the cassette, slowly taking up slack as it goes. Once it reaches the point where there is no more slack, something has to give. And the problem is that at that point when you are pedaling, you have a LOT of leverage against the chain stretching.

I am less certain about what happens if the mis-shift is in the front (e.g., you are in the big cog, then shift from the middle ring to big ring). But again, you may well have the little bit if slack needed to get the chain STARTED on the big ring.... but then run out as the chain on the big cog makes its way around.

OTOH, shifting to to small a ring/cog combo usually just means that the chain goes slack. Worst case is that you drop the chain or it gets jammed somewhere.

Thus, if you need to lose combos, always lose the ones on the small cog.

Last edited by Kapusta; 01-22-21 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 01-23-21, 12:34 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I’ll stick with the 46-36-24 for loaded touring, because sometimes, mountains. Pedaled this up a 15 mile dirt/gravel/rock road during my last tour out west. Ruling grade was about 8.9%. Packed for camping, full cooking and cold temperatures.
Packed everything but the sailboat.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:25 PM
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I used to ride a pedi-cab. Specifically, https://www.pedicab.com/pedicabs/the-broadway-pedicab/

It had a pretty basic low end triple. What it did have was a second chain to turn the rear axle. I believe that the cogs between the two were sized so that it was either 30 or 40 percent lower gearing.

It was actually pretty useful because I'd take fatties uphill on the daily. It was pretty normal to be going so slow that people walking on the street would pass me. If my passengers were drunk enough, they didn't care.

Had I not been on a trike, I don't think I was going fast enough to stay upright.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Resistance in the pedaling may increase (sort of, but it will likely be too late) but not in the shifting. If you have the capacity for your 2nd biggest cog, but not your first, then you will shift into the 2nd biggest no problem. And you will most likely START to shift into the biggest cog with no problem, as you are barely using any more slack. The problem comes as the chain on the larger cog starts making its way around the cassette, slowly taking up slack as it goes. Once it reaches the point where there is no more slack, something has to give. And the problem is that at that point when you are pedaling, you have a LOT of leverage against the chain stretching.
Shi(f)t happens. From another thread:

I've seen a couple of friends claim they'd never shift to that big/big combo so they cut their chains a bit short. Aaannnddd they shifted into the big/big and tore off their RDs, usually on fast group rides in noisy conditions.
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Old 01-23-21, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
Packed everything but the sailboat.
I was heading into an area with few services for two nights so I had to bring two breakfasts, some snacks and one dinner. Also needed stuff to get me the 50 miles, 4,100’ of climbing when I left the area. Ate my sandwich earlier in the day. Dinner first night was at the bar/restaurant, but I had been there 2 years earlier and knew the store attached to the place had slim pickings and wouldn’t be open at 5:30 am when I finally left.

And as noted, I had to be prepared for cold and wet weather. I had that several days of that during that two-week trip. I’ve been hit with storms at altitudes of up to almost 8,000’. You don’t want to have to descend for 10 or 20 miles without the proper clothing. A few years earlier I skimped on the foul weather gear and became quite hypothermic during a long descent in very cold rain. Scary.
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Old 01-23-21, 11:58 PM
  #49  
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I run triples on several bicycles. I'm can't pull the bigger gears anymore. I like to set up my triples with a 24 tooth granny, a 32 tooth middle and a 34 tooth high gear. I like 11-34 rear 10 speed cassettes. The 32 34 tooth setup gives me a half step which is very useful. I use the half step all the time and find it most helpful in windy conditions. I have resorted to first dropping into my 24 when going up very steep grades. I then can adjust the rear cassette to fit the conditions easily. We have some pedestrian overpasses that get very steep quickly. One can stand and muscle over or just drop it into the granny and sit and pedal over at a more leisurely pace. The 34 tooth with a 24 tooth up front is very low and can be hard to keep the bike upright. Traction has to be good in these lower gears. We all have reasons for our gear choices. I run a 1 x 10 bicycle and love it but the triples are a little bit better all round riders with no real down side. Also I agree that big big chainring chain alignment should be survivable. Stuff happens and you can inadvertently shift into that combo. Install the rear derailleur that properly allows that to happen and will take up all the slack on small small also.
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Old 01-24-21, 01:12 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
22T small ring and 54t big ring is a huge spread (32t). What FDs can handle that?
I do a 52-24 easily with an old SunTour ARX (AX?). No index but with an old fashioned (and old) SunTour ratchet shifter, piece of cake.
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