Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Help with Italian frame ID

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Help with Italian frame ID

Old 12-13-17, 03:17 PM
  #1  
MightyTour 
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Help with Italian frame ID

Bought this on CL a couple months ago. Seller claimed it was a Cinelli Super Corsa. Others have said it isn't but I'm not up on Italian bikes well enough to know. Campy 26.4mm seatpost (stuck for now, unfortunately), Campy HS, unbranded Italian BB. Campy dropouts, filed lugs. Came with usual NR drivetrain, Cinelli bars, some obviously non-original Suntour stuff. Full chrome, no sign of any decals, no serial number or any sign of one. Any help greatly appreciated.

https://imgur.com/a/jUiCV
MightyTour is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 03:52 PM
  #2  
Wulf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 249 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Not a Cinelli as far as I can tell.
Flat crown
Wrap-around seat stays
Eyelets on dropouts
odd (but pretty) dropout/stay junction.
No rivet holes for head badge.
Wulf is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 05:08 PM
  #3  
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,625

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1008 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,030 Posts
Not a Speciale Corsa (or Super Corsa, if you prefer) and probabaly not a Cinelli of any kind. The flat fork crown means it's not an SC, although the Cinelli Model B had flat fork crowns. But what makes me say "not any kind of Cinelli" is the seat cluster. I have never seen that kind of set stay attachment on any Cinelli, in person or in a photo - the style looks more British to my eye than Italian. Also, the seat post bolt is not the kind Cinelli used. Finally, classic SC's used a 26.2mm seat post, not 26.4.

The front drop out attachment style looks wrong to me also, but I am less certain about that.

So I am all but certain it is not a Cinelli of any persuasion, and quite certain it is not an SC, but it does look like it could be pretty nice frame in its own right, assuming you can get the stuck seat post out without damaging the frame. (There are other threads here on how to do that.)

For educational purposes, you can get a lot of visual information about what classic Cinellis look like on Classic Rendezvous and on Cinelli Only. Sorry for the lack of links, but they come right up if you google them.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 06:03 PM
  #4  
Drillium Dude 
Banned.
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,394
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,823 Times in 1,709 Posts
Screams French to me, with the wrap-over stay caps and fish-mouth stay/fork ends. The metal work is rather crude, and what is with the lack of definition around the lug/shell shorelines? It's not like chrome builds up at the joints the way a too-thick paint job does, so that's a little strange.

It's surely not a Cinelli.

DD
Drillium Dude is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 06:32 PM
  #5  
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 4,715

Bikes: Indeed!

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1504 Post(s)
Liked 3,443 Times in 1,127 Posts
I agree with DD that it looks French. Looks like an interesting treatment of the lugs, sort of rounded edges with some fine feathering at the edges, but it's hard to tell with the reflection in the photos. If you remove the locking nut on the headset you should see an inscription telling us the thread diameter and pitch. This may help us to narrow down the nationality. I can't see what bottom bracket is on it but diameter and thread pitch of BB will also help. Not that some BB fixed cups have reverse threading.
Brent
obrentharris is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 08:08 PM
  #6  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,959
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
agree with all the thoughts and will add the fork blade x-section looks much more "Reynolds" than "Columbus" but I'd say the 26.4 seatpost is a strong clue for Reynolds in a metric (likely French or possibly Swiss, Belgian, Spanish?) flavor...measure the ODs of the main tubes and confirm the HS threading...if it's really an Italian BB shell then we have a weird combo, here.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 08:19 PM
  #7  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,541
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1858 Post(s)
Liked 605 Times in 402 Posts
Looks like a Pretty nice Frameset to me. Whatever it is.
Wileyone is offline  
Old 12-13-17, 09:22 PM
  #8  
Hudson308 
Mr. Anachronism
 
Hudson308's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Somewhere west of Tobie's
Posts: 2,093

Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 165 Posts
French bike should have a 68mm wide bottom bracket shell. Italian shell would measure 70mm wide.
__________________
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates

Last edited by Hudson308; 12-14-17 at 06:41 AM.
Hudson308 is offline  
Old 12-14-17, 04:23 AM
  #9  
mech986 
Senior Member
 
mech986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: La Habra, California
Posts: 820

Bikes: Italvega Super Speciales and Superlights

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 355 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 174 Posts
In some respects, it looks like the lugs were additionally filed down, almost flattened, before chroming so I wonder if the chrome was a rechrome job, not original. It would be instructive to see the bottom bracket from below to see if any numbers or markings were stamped in or if they were filled with chrome also. The original seller sure was misrepresenting this as a Cinelli. Most Cinelli lugs will have a few decreasing diameter holes in the tops and inside the fork heads where they meet the crown.
mech986 is offline  
Old 12-14-17, 06:18 AM
  #10  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,035

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro

Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,236 Times in 653 Posts
Cinelli - NO WAY!

Imaginative seller! It's not a Cinelli.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Most other suggestion are going in the right direction.

26.4mm was the standard size seatpost for metric diameter tubes with a 1.0mm x 0.7mm wall thickness used for most production French frames back then. Reynolds 531 or maybe Metric Columbus SP.

Fish mouthed rear stay and forks ends are definitely French.

Could be a Stella frame or a top end Motobecane from the late 60's to early70's. Or it could have been produced by some small French constructeur (local frame builder). .

The workmanship looks good in places but someone got carried away with a file on the lugs. Were they trying to thin the lugs or did a ham fisted amateur attempt a frame repair???

I'd have someone who knows what to look for as regards to damage or repairs check out the frame before I put any work into it.

Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)


Last edited by verktyg; 12-14-17 at 06:25 AM.
verktyg is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
xander1027
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
10
11-17-13 10:39 AM
liumpen
Road Cycling
12
06-30-13 10:43 PM
Cissell
Classic & Vintage
9
05-16-12 09:11 PM
Cissell
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals.
0
05-15-12 07:18 PM
unworthy1
Classic & Vintage
17
12-14-11 12:18 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.