LucasHartong

Today I went to pick up an older frame with nice colours. It's a Giovanni, made by Slikkersport in The Netherlands. I already own a Giovanni, but that's a modern one. This frame is a bit of a mystery to me. It's made of steel, but no 'handles' on the frame. It looks as if it was a timetrial bike. But a steel one? Hm... It has a Cinelli bottom bracket/lug. Interesting! And a Cinelli brake bridge at the rear. Then there is the Tange Levin headset. Nice. But what kind of fork is this? Tange too? I don't know yet. The rear pads are Brev. Campagnolo 1010/B. The frame has a small 'portacatena' for the chain. I have no idea what I have brought home, but I like it. Any suggestions, help, advise? Appreciated!

juvela

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Hello Again Lucas,

Thank you for sharing yet another good find!

Please remember to post it to the "show us your Dutch bikes" thread as well.

Shall look forward to reading @non-fixie 's observations.

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non-fixie 

That's a good-looking frame!

The easiest way to identification would be to take it to Piet Slikker's shop in Alkmaar, and ask him. That is, if it is still open. I was there a few years back with my Giovanni.I don't think Piet built his own frames, though. I'd check it against a some Martelly frames from that era. Eddie Martens built frames for Wout Verhoeven's customers, of whom Slikker was one.

juvela

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One odd thing noticed which you two lads may wish to comment upon is that fork ends exhibit eyelets whilst dropouts do not.

This made me wonder if dining utensil might perchance represent a replace-a-mente...

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non-fixie 

I wondered about that too, not because of the eyelets (hadn't even noticed those yet), but because it so ugly, while the rest is so nice. But then again, I am really, really biased when it comes to uni-crown forks.

juvela

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If you begin a club I would like to be on the list for charter membership.

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CroMo Mike 

The rear triangle has chrome socks, while the fork has none. One thing I have noted while comparing bikes with and without unicrown forks is that the unicrown design places the lower headset a bit farther from the brake hole and the tire than a regular crown fork. So installing a unicrown on a frame that was not designed for one could make the front of the top tube sit higher than the rear.

unworthy1

Cinelli "spoiler" investment-cast BB shell is no earlier than mid-80s and probably a bit later. The uni-crown fork COULD be original but I would hope not.

Wulf

The seat tube sticking up above the seat lug seems kind of cheap to me.

LucasHartong

Keep sending those comments please! And I think that the frame is from around 1980-83 too. The fork had exactly the same paint as the frame, so seems to belong to it. No reason to think otherwise yet. Any comments on the headset? Dating?

non-fixie 

Early eighties seems too early for a unicrown fork. Also, it doesn't make much sense to me to braze a nice lugged frame and then stick a welded fork in it. It looks like the original fork was replaced by an off-the-shelf item and then the frameset was repainted.

LucasHartong

I keep all options open. What kind of frame is it then? It's very light, by the way. Very.

juvela

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WRT fork -

if you were to withdraw it you could examine the steerer for any markings. might possibly advance the investigation. are fork ends a match for dropouts?

in this image we can see that it appears to have erstwhile been wearing white. no chips of same colour are apparent on frame.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforu...f56687e881.jpg

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are you able to read the markings on the front of the upper headlug?

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LucasHartong

This coming week I will investigate the fork further. In the meantime some more pics. Hope this helps.
I happened to notice that the (original?) paint is yellow and quite old, seen the 'cracquelé'. What to do with the paint? Keep it as is or remove all and repaint?

juvela

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Thank you for these additional images Lucas.

Suspect fork ends to be Tange.

Unfortunately quick release has galled face right where one would expect to see marking.

When you have an opportunity you could try cleaning and/or etching there to see if marking could be brought up to visibility.

Possible also that steerer will exhibit a Tange stamping.

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juvela

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Note that frame's investment cast brake bridge made for incasso mount of caliper.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforu...ddaa10576e.jpg

While fork crown is not.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforu...f56687e881.jpg

Would expect frame from this time to be built with 47mm brake centres. You could try dropping a 700 wheel in rear triangle to check brake centre and then doing same thing on the front. Unlikely front will match. Fork may not even have been constructed for 700 wheel size.

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LucasHartong

So. Took the fork out today. It's not a Tange. Nothing on it. Cleaned the fork inside and out, put new grease in it, new balls and lo... it works perfectly. The diameter is 22 mm. Found some nice wheels: Mavic GP4 with Campagnolo Record hubs. I like 'em. They have Vittoria Corsa CX tubes. The saddle-pin is 27.2 mm. (hope to change it one day for a Campagnolo...) and the saddle is a Selle Italia I had kept, 'just in case'. With this yellow on yellow I think it suits quite well. The cassette I'm looking for is a Campagnolo 'England 1.370 x 24 tpi BS'. Right. Well, I'll keep my eyes open. And for the rest. Isn't it nice, working on older bikes?! Could you agree a Campagnolo Record group would fit nicely?

juvela

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Thanks for the update Lucas.

What be going on with the coffee sacks which can be seen in the background? Be you involved in coffee trade?

The one on the left is from a co-op in Brasil:

https://www.cocarive.com.br/us/coop.php

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LucasHartong

No, that's pure decoration to hide all the bike parts underneath. Top secret!

juvela

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Bien sur!

It's all of those 50th anniversary groups you have new-in-the-box which you don't want anyone to know about.

The secret is out now!

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JohnDThompson 

The TIG-welded unicrown fork with a lugged frame also suggests it may be a replacement fork.

juvela

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WRT coffee sacks -

Lucas will definitely have to upgrade ye olde alarm system now!

On another note -

still no report on markings on upper head lug.

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LucasHartong

LOL. The coffee here tastes good though!

non-fixie 

I don't think the paint is original or does the frame any justice. It's a really nice frame, and If it were mine I'd seriously consider a repaint in a more classy (single) color. Something like a deep red metallic would offset the chrome really nicely. Oh, and I'd be looking for a replacement fork. For reference: the fork on this Faggin is a Tange item, and most probably also a replacement:





Just my two cents.

LucasHartong

Thanks. All cents count. Giovanni's however are known for a specific thing: their remarkable colour-mixes, so I do believe these colours are original.